Upgrading overheads?

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Zeppelin4Life
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Upgrading overheads?

Post by Zeppelin4Life » Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:27 pm

Just a thought, I use Marshall MXL 603s for drum overheads..but if I was to step up to a nicer pair or whatevers what would you recommend? Its hard to find topics on the type of mics used as overheads. 451s still 'standard'?
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Re: Upgrading overheads?

Post by soundguy » Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:33 pm

whats the problem you are having with your current setup? What are you specifically trying to solve which is motivating you to spend money on new mics?

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Re: Upgrading overheads?

Post by Zeppelin4Life » Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:40 pm

an obnoxious bump in the 8khz region. I checked the spec sheets. the mics work great on acoustic guitars but the cymbals have always been on the harsher side.
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Re: Upgrading overheads?

Post by soundguy » Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:47 pm

thats not specific enough, a spec sheet doesnt really tell you anything so far as Im concerned. A line on a piece of graph paper doesnt not tell you shit about the way something sounds.

Are you bothered by the presence of the HF bump or are you bothered by the quality of the HF response of the mic?

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Re: Upgrading overheads?

Post by Zeppelin4Life » Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:52 pm

the harshness...so I guess thats the quality..the transients. id have to try a bunch of mics. but im not happy with the sound. right now
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Re: Upgrading overheads?

Post by soundguy » Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:56 pm

are you using it with a transformerless pre?

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Re: Upgrading overheads?

Post by Quest Poetics » Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:11 pm

Not to say that a nice mic pre will make those mics sound less harsh, but I found that when I was using my Trak2 pre's my overall cymbals were not quite as harsh as when I was using a mackie...

I know alot of people may piss on AKG 414's but I've been pretty happy w/ them since I've mixed those (for overheads) along side Octava mc012's (as room mics)

My cymbals are acutally not harsh at all...I tend to eq a tiny bit in mixing, but that's really only cutting out the frequencies that I don't tend to be fond of...

Have fun and perhaps try a better mic pre...Clean/Transparent perhaps...It' may do the trick w/ your cymbals...

Peace

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Re: Upgrading overheads?

Post by Slider » Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:23 pm

soundfinesse wrote:Not to say that a nice mic pre will make those mics sound less harsh, but I found that when I was using my Trak2 pre's my overall cymbals were not quite as harsh as when I was using a mackie...

I know alot of people may piss on AKG 414's but I've been pretty happy w/ them since I've mixed those (for overheads) along side Octava mc012's (as room mics)

My cymbals are acutally not harsh at all...I tend to eq a tiny bit in mixing, but that's really only cutting out the frequencies that I don't tend to be fond of...

Have fun and perhaps try a better mic pre...Clean/Transparent perhaps...It' may do the trick w/ your cymbals...

Peace

Yeah.. That's my standard. the silver 414's.
Nice on overs.
I can get by with whatever though.

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Re: Upgrading overheads?

Post by Jburn34 » Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:45 pm

My favorite overheads are schoeps cmc6/mk4's. I've used tlm103's, u87's, 451's, silver 414eb's, and so on, but the schoeps have been absolutely amazing. In the less expensive range I would probably go w/ a pair of 451's.

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Re: Upgrading overheads?

Post by numberthirty » Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:06 pm

Zepp: Is borrowing(or maybe even renting) microphones an option for you? That way you could get a feel for how other microphones would sound vs. what you have before you take the plunge and replace what you have. Just a thought. If you think the frequencey bump is the culprit, you could try to cut back in that area and, see if that changes the sound of what you have to your liking. Good luck.

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Re: Upgrading overheads?

Post by t morgan » Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:59 pm

The Shure kms32's and the AT4033 work really well and are not too much$. I find the 32's more natural, but prefer the 4033 most often. If the OH mic's are sounding harsh from cymbal crashes, I'll ask the drummer not to them so hard. It almost always seems works.
Like someone said earlier, good pre's help too...


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Re: Upgrading overheads?

Post by sthslvrcnfsn » Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:31 am

better pre's, better drummer - add it to the wishlist... in my limited experience - and you say you're only 16! - i have a few comments. And this is said with ALL honesty and similar [+6 years] experience.

SM57 times two. Put them in the right place. I won't say anything more, and anybody can call me an ashole because of this.

the oktava mc012's that "everyman" raves about for $100 a pair are well worth it. i have used my pair incessantly for a year and a half now, and haven't been dissapointed - "in living rooms across the country." EASILY!!! the best $100 I've spent ever, recording or otherwise.

But then again, you talked about 451's. from the times i'ved used them, they are pretty smooth on the high end. At the studio i used to intern at, they were the only stereo pair of mics available for drum overheads other than 414's, which were not matched anywhow. they sounded much better than the 414's (though in the VERY specific space, the older 414 was badass if placed right for a room mic).

i assisted a guy (who, with ethan johns, did ryan adams' heartbreaker, a beautiful recording - NO COMPRESSION AT ALL!!! hurray!!!), and he used a pair of u47's as Oh's - the placement is a trick from ethan's dad. absolutley wonderful. i used them on a leslie (via a hammond c3) a few days later. again, absolutley wonderful. I don't think you are talking about spending several grand on a pair, though. [captain of industry is the band, and it is a yet-to-be released EP]

the shure ksm32's i've only used twice, and for drums. i used them both times, and with different bands, for stereo room mics - placed EXTREMELY far out and up about 12'. i tiny bit brittle, but i'd love to use them again, fo' sho'.

Rode mics = bad for you, because of your brittlness concern. I used to want an NT2 because of the price point, but after hearing that, the NT1, and the classic 2, i am disturbed by brittle-fucking-city. not good OH mics IMHO - give me the oktavas.

Barring other potential OH pairs that I am unfamiliar with, my vote goes to the 451's, as far as you are concerned.

let's hear what you've done so far,
jim!

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Re: Upgrading overheads?

Post by Doublehelix » Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:13 am

A bit cliche here, but the Neumann KM184s sound absolutely *marvelous* as OHs. I had been using the Rode NT5s and have also tried the AKG 414ULS's with (what I thought) was great success...until I tried the damn Neumann's...*unbelievable* is all I can say.

I expected them to be good, but not this good. This difference between them and the NT5's is not even fair to compare. The poor Rodes, while a good value, aren't even in the same area code.

I have a friend that let me borrow his pair, and ever since, I have been drooling over a pair of my own. These things are the *best* OH mics I have ever heard.

Beware though, listening to them will lighten your wallet significantly!!! ;)
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Ronan
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Re: Upgrading overheads?

Post by Ronan » Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:13 am

The Shure KSM 32s are my fave OH mics and any price point for just the reasons you mentioned. They do not get harsh when the drummer really digs in to the cymbals

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Re: Upgrading overheads?

Post by Huntlabs » Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:27 am

Zep,

You have -$14.00 in the paul fund.....

Buying new overheads means no Paul right?

Hows about trying something cheap like eq on those marshals? Soundguy is trying to steer you in the right direction.

A note on Rode's: I have NTK's, NT2, and NT5's. The NTK's had been sitting on the shelf till i tried them on drums. Sounded really good to me on cymbals and snare. And having compared these Rode mics to AT4033's, AKG414, Dragonfly, Kiwi, Blueberry, Marshalls, Octava's, KSM27's the differences begin to blur at times. Throw any of them them in a mix with a little eq and hearing the difference would be tough. The Rode stuff doesn't suck. I think it is how you choose use it that matters.

Anybody want to buy some NT5's??? :wink:
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