Has anyone used Ward Beck mic pre's?

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angopop
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Has anyone used Ward Beck mic pre's?

Post by angopop » Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:41 pm

A buddy with a studio bought some Ward Beck modules and made them into mic pres, and I've heard a recording he did with it and it sounded great.

I found someone who will sell me one, and I was just wondering if anyone had used them, and two questions:

1. How do they compare to other similar priced ($1000) mic pres (Avalons, etc...)
2. How do the different Ward Beck models sound...I'm looking at the M460C.

It would be my first substantial upgrade into the world of over $150 mic pres...I've been using the PreSonus Blue Tube.

Thanks

maz
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Re: Has anyone used Ward Beck mic pre's?

Post by maz » Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:08 pm

I have a pair of 460LA's that I really love. They are definitely thick and colorful. THE MAN for these is Dave Thomas - here's an email I saved when I was shopping these pre's:
dave thomas wrote:The M460 module was designed by Roger Beck to compete with the Neve 1081
modules during the mid 70's and was so successful that Ward Beck could not
keep up with orders from the Broadcast industry where the consoles outsold
Neve 2:1 into North America. Ward Beck never even considered marketing
these to the recording industry as they were so busy with broadcast clients
such as ABC, NBC and the CBC in Canada plus many small stations.

The M470 was designed after the M470 series and the input transformer is
similar to a Jensen while the M460 has a transformer similar to a the St
Ives used by Neve in the 1073/1081 modules.

The M460 has a gain of 70db in the preamp while the M470 has a gain of 60db
(more than adequate for pop music). The M470 has a more modern extended
high end than the M460 which has a 6db per octave rolloff built in after 50
khz. The difference is the high end is subtle especially when recording
into hard disk recorder because even at 96 khz sample rate the response is
sharply rolled off by the A/D filtering at about 70db/octave at 48 khz and
at a sample rate of the 44.1 khz the A/D rolls the response of at
70db/octave at 22khz.

The M460 has a frequency response 1db down at 20hz while the M470 has a
response down 1db at 30hz while both the M460 and M470 are flat out to
20khz. The M460 and M470 preamps both are discrete class "A" except for the
output stage which is clas A/B this is why both the M460 and M470 have 6db
more headroom in the preamp stage than a Neve 1073 or 1081. The M460 has a
completely variable hp filter while the M470 has a 3 position hp filter.
The M460 will deliver +30dBM with .25% distortion while the M470 will
deliver +27dBM with .25% distortion. The M460 was meant to work into 600
ohm loads the old broadcast standard but by the time the M470 was designed
the line outputs were never loaded with more than 10k ohms. However, the
M470 is capable of delivering +30dBM with less than .25% distortion from the
insert send which is balanced. Both the M460 and M470 have balanced
outputs.

Some folks like the high end of the M470 while other prefer the M460. I
would think that the M460 would be a good choice for vocals and guitars
while the M470 would be nicer on percussion. Although, I have a friend who
owns a studio and prefers the M460 on piano over the M470.

The M460 modules are generally older than the M470 and require more
maintenance and re-conditioning. The M460 and the M470 both use high
quality tantalum capacitors in the audio chain which are more expensive than
electrolytics but do not dry out and breakdown like the electrolytic. The
tantalum produces odd harmonic distortion while an electrolytic produces
even harmonic distortion. Odd harmonic distortion is more musical.
The only other outboard pre I have is an Ampex 351, which has more air but not as much girth. On the last record I worked on, I used the WB's almost exclusively and found them to be really really great on ac and el guitars. Not so great on vocals unless you want a darker rock sound. I have used Averil 1272s and while the whole "Ward Beck is the Canadian Neve" thing might be overdone, I can tell why it is thrown around. They are in the same family.

I can't compare it to the Avalon, I've only used that a few times but I found the Avalon to be a boring character, where these definitely have a sound. I like them a lot more knowing I have my 351 to go to for less color.

PM me if you want Dave's email- I'm sure it's also here if you do a search but I don't like putting other people's email addresses on message boards.
BTW a search here and gearslutz.com will give you some good reading material too.

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soundguy
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Re: Has anyone used Ward Beck mic pre's?

Post by soundguy » Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:36 pm

I used to have a pair of 460's (I think they were 460's) the mic pre is really nice, the eq is really open and airy sounding. These were EQ's that would do a nice job of sitting on top of everything in a really nice way. I never fell in love with them, but I sorta miss them on occasion. I dont knwo that I would pay $1k for them, but even at $500 per, its a pretty decent price I suppose compared to other EQ's out there. These for instance, completely SLAY neotek stuff which people seem to pay money for. The mic pre has a cool saturated feel to it without sounding really heavy. And Dave Thomas is completely the guy you want to buy them from, he knows these things inside and out. So far as claiming "canadian neve" the only thing WB and neve have in common is the fact that they both made consoles, these do not sound like any neve EQ I have ever used, however, they are really good none the less.

dave
http://www.glideonfade.com
one hundred percent discrete transistor recording with style and care.

Frost
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Re: Has anyone used Ward Beck mic pre's?

Post by Frost » Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:47 pm

I have a pair of WB 470 EQs which Dave Thomas racked for me. They sound great, tho the asking price from your buddy is too high. Dave will rack you a pair for around $700 shipped give or take condition. Mine are the Pre's with no EQ, tho I have used the EQ as well. They are my favorite preamp for bass and they do quite well on kick and snare too. Electric guitar tracks through them have made a few records too. They have a slightly thick vintagey thing. Top end feels clean and clear but not as bright as other solid state preamps I have. They have big transformers in them so give a slightly wooly feel too. More clean than color but definitely not a millenia, and definitely not a mackie :shock:

I think the EQ is OK, tho dave can mod it to make a much wider Q making it much more useful.

In the end they are nice well built channel strips and dave thomas offers great support for them.

Frost

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rhythm ranch
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Re: Has anyone used Ward Beck mic pre's?

Post by rhythm ranch » Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:58 pm

Possibly some helpful info here.

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