Assisting

tubejay · Post by **tubejay** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:35 am

Rules:

1. Kiss producer's ass
2. Don't screw anything up
3. Kiss producer's ass some more
4. Go get the producer some coffee
5. Kiss producer's ass
6. Take blame for producer's mistakes
7. Kiss producer's ass
8. Let the producer scream at you when things aren't going well
9. Get producer some more coffee
10. Find a new job and get the hell out of the recording business for a career.
11. Amen

andyg666 · Post by **andyg666** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:04 am

here's a serious one--a mistake i made in a session with a young but experienced engineer who set me straight later that evening... even if you think you know more than the engineer, don't EVER contradict his/her opinion or practices in front of the client. ask questions and even challenge the engineer if you feel comfortable with your relationship with him/her--but NEVER in front of the client... the engineer walks a fine line trying to build trust and keep the session moving in the way that he/she thinks is best for the client and best for his/her ongoing relationship with the client. an overzealous assistant--even with lots of knowledge--has no right to undermine the relationship between an engineer and his/her client. do ask questions and make suggestions, but never in front of the client!!!

tubejay · Post by **tubejay** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:23 am

Or, a good producer/engineer will sit down with the assistant BEFORE a session begins and lay down the ground rules and expectations...which NEVER happens. Many producers think clairvoyance is an assisting pre-requisite. Though I agree, assistants shouldn't question the producer/engineer in front of the client. That doesn't give the producer engineer the right to be a complete ass-wad and treat assistants like an unwanted step-child.

I assisted a big wig producer once who spliced a tape incorrectly and somehow managed to blame me for it. Needless to say, that session was the WORST experience I've ever had in the studio. It's also the last time I put myself through being an assistant. I'd say flipping burgers down at Burger King is a better job than assisting. Too many producers are ego maniacs, who are on the edge of insanity. The days of producers training assistants are over, or are very rare at best. Assisting is now a career path...and a VERY bad one. It's right next to being a house boy for Biff in Hellywood.

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:40 am

tubejay wrote:Or, a good producer/engineer will sit down with the assistant BEFORE a session begins and lay down the ground rules and expectations...which NEVER happens. Many producers think clairvoyance is an assisting pre-requisite. Though I agree, assistants shouldn't question the producer/engineer in front of the client. That doesn't give the producer engineer the right to be a complete ass-wad and treat assistants like an unwanted step-child.

You know, I do have to say that it has been FAR more common for me to witness an assitant doing something totally stupid than a producer treating an assistant like an ass.

I once had an intern that was kicked out of one studio for contradicting the engineer's stance on a certain matter. When the guy came to me about interning, I explained that although the engineer may not have used the most tact in railing the kid in front of the clients, he was right in that the intern should have kept his mouth shut. About a week later, the kid did the same thing to me. I waited until the clients left to say anything, but I did ask him not to come back.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

soundguy · Post by **soundguy** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:27 pm

jeesh jay, sounds like you are a fantastic asistant.

how about this.

1. do a good job.
2. do a good job.

end of list.

If you do a good job people treat you with respect. If you are trying hard and have te right attitude even the biggest assholes will accomodate a learning curve. I treat the new guy who is busting his ass and fucking up way better than the old jaded bitter guy who does the job proficiently but gives off a vibe like he'd rather be at home watching TV instead of att work.

dave

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:23 pm

"If you do a good job people treat you with respect. If you are trying hard and have te right attitude even the biggest assholes will accomodate a learning curve. I treat the new guy who is busting his ass and fucking up way better than the old jaded bitter guy who does the job proficiently but gives off a vibe like he'd rather be at home watching TV instead of att work. "
-Dave

That should be on the first page of every single book about recording. Period. For real.

tubejay · Post by **tubejay** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:15 pm

soundguy wrote:jeesh jay, sounds like you are a fantastic asistant.

how about this.

1. do a good job.
2. do a good job.

end of list.

If you do a good job people treat you with respect. If you are trying hard and have te right attitude even the biggest assholes will accomodate a learning curve. I treat the new guy who is busting his ass and fucking up way better than the old jaded bitter guy who does the job proficiently but gives off a vibe like he'd rather be at home watching TV instead of att work.

dave

I was actually a very good assistant. But, I'm not an assistant anymore, and I wouldn't do it for a million dollars. Literally, I will NEVER assist again in my life. I don't hate myself that much. I was a very requested assistant because I knew my stuff, and knew when to talk and when not to. Though, I've had one too many psycho grammy award winning producers treat me like a kick toy. And I took it...and I took it...and then I could not take it anymore, so I simply stopped assisting. I NEVER questioned the producer or engineer's judgement. I'm not a moron. I know that there are plenty of assistants who are retarded, but I am not. I went out of my bloody way to make sure I did not step on any toes. And I know from speaking to others that my experience with psychotic producers is not an uncommon experience for assistants. I did it...I lived it, and it is by far the worst job I've ever had. If you let people treat you like that, then you have no self respect. Maybe where you're at, you don't deal with that type of behavoir, but that was my experience with big studio, big ego talent.

The only semi-unprofessional thing I ever did while assisting was walk out on the producer of the last session I assisted on, because I HONESTLY thought he was going to start punching me. He had already kicked a $60,000 Studer as hard as he could because he spliced a tape wrong...I figured I was next. He spent three weeks yelling at me, yelling at the band members, and screaming at anyone in his path before it came to that. But it CAME to that.

And excuse me for making a fucking JOKE!!!!!!!! Good lord, what is the world coming to? Next lecture, thanks dad. Honestly, doing a good job is a given. If that was the advice you have for youngsters who think assisting is going to be peaches and baby oil, then you're going to have some very shocked coffee boys, kick toys, and grocery getters (oh and hit stop on the tape machine before my foot rub please).

When you assist a psycho producers...learning curve has NOTHING to do with it. NOTHING. A good leader does not leave loose ends, and unset expectations either. We all know there are a lot of bad assistants out there, so why would you chance it, and NOT have a discussion on the ground rules with each new assistant you use BEFORE the session? I realize that some of this stuff is common sense, but not everyone possesses common sense. And doing a good job, will NOT guarantee you respect. My experience has been that many people will treat you with respect, but a LOT won't. That's just the real world.

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:20 pm

tubejay wrote:I know from speaking to others that my experience with psychotic producers is not an uncommon experience for assistants. I did it...I lived it, and it is by far the worst job I've ever had.

If working in a studio was the worst job you've ever had, under any circumstances short of crime or physical abuse, you are one lucky dude.

I've worked for real assholes before (in studios) and I've both put up with it and quit the jobs. But the minute I say that any music job I ever had was the worst job I ever had, it's time for me to quit. It doesn't pay that well and there are too many people that enjoy it and do a good job.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

JGriffin · Post by **JGriffin** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:31 pm

Bottom line there is, there are some people who, no matter how good they are at their main job--whether it's audio engineer or sous chef--are very bad at being in charge of other people. I have had bosses like that in and out of the audio world.

wayout · Post by **wayout** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:48 pm

<If working in a studio was the worst job you've ever had, under any circumstances short of crime or physical abuse, you are one lucky dude.>

No, buddy. You are a glutton for punishment, have no self esteem, or have not really worked long hours for abusive assholes in a studio before.

<snip>
<It doesn't pay that well and there are too many people that enjoy it and do a good job.>

Masochistic good job!

Fuck that! Like YOU said, the money aint that good.
Sometimes its not enough pay when you are the head honcho...
-wayout

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:19 am

wayout wrote:No, buddy. You are a glutton for punishment, have no self esteem, or have not really worked long hours for abusive assholes in a studio before.

I'm not, do not, and have worked in those situations. It's funny, I've actually been asking a bunch of musicians lately what their worst jobs ever have been. None of them have answered with anything music-related. I have never been in a session where I really wished I was back doing carbon removal from filters at petroleum storage facilities. Never. Not once. And I've been through some stupid shit. Hell, I've posted about some of them, which is probably why I was asked to moderate this forum.

I can't stand being around jaded people. Yeah, everybody who does something for long enough is gonna find something to complain about--I'm totally cool with that--but I can't imagine getting myself into a situation (again, short of crime or physical abuse) where I really honestly wished I was flipping burgers or processing insurance claims. (No offense to those of you who do either. It's just not for me.)

Maybe I'm living in a fairly tale world or something, but I do this because I love it. I do this because even the worst situations are worth putting up with if it means I don't have to do something else. I'll bet there's someone else on here who feels that same way.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:26 am

"Maybe I'm living in a fairly tale world or something, but I do this because I love it. I do this because even the worst situations are worth putting up with if it means I don't have to do something else. I'll bet there's someone else on here who feels that same way. "

I produce/engineer because I have to. It is all I ever wanted to do. I dont even look at it as a "job" per se....

I have been doing it for a relatively long time now. Every day can be fun. You CAN learn something every day. If you walk around in life thinking you are right all the time, that seems to repel new information and fun....

I really think Dave nailed it...

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:31 am

joel hamilton wrote:I really think Dave nailed it...

What did Dave say?

CG

andyg666 · Post by **andyg666** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:01 am

during my time assisting and engineering, i endured some assholes, and i also met some really wonderful people. i learned a lot from both. the only reason that i am not still slaving away in the studio is $$$. which sucks...

but i got coffee and took dinner orders and took the blame when it wasn't my fault on at least one or more occasions, and i did so with a smile and a good attitude. i gave respect, i received respect. when my duties were actually that of engineer, i gave and received the same respect from clients and assistants alike. the one situation i observed an asshole producer berate the assistant was when he forgot to arm the kick-drum track, didn't realize it until halfway through the track, and didn't tell them until they were done playing. yes, this producer was a hard-ass, but he didn't get truly mean until this happened. the assistant made a technical mistake, and then made a mistake in judgement, and he got his... i worked in small and mid-sized studios that were run by great people, so i guess i was shielded from some of the asshole-ism i would have endured at a hit factory or the like...

i love recording, i love the studio, and if my finances and the state of the universe allow me to return to it as a career at any point i would do so in a heartbeat even if it meant starting as an assistant again.

wayout · Post by **wayout** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:45 am

Sorry...
Wont drink and post anymore.
You optimists are definately right...
The worst studio gig is still better than washing dishes. When you care about what you ae doing there is always something to learn. Even if you are learning what NOT to do.
Its especially hard for me to see people treating each other poorly in a creative environment.

I think if you have no people skills, you really need to stay the fuck out of situations where you spend lots of time in closed spaces with other people!
It REALLY bugs me when I see people acting like morons in one of my favorite places: a recording space.

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