AKG D112, Sure Beta 52A, Sennheiser e602, RE-20, SM-7??

[Derrick]

AKG D112, Sure Beta 52A, Sennheiser e602, RE-20, SM-7??

I need to upgrade to a better kick drum mic. I'm not sure which one of these to get. The RE-20 and D112 were industry standards... now people claim the 52A to be the industry standard. joel H has had great things to say about the e602. I have a SM-7 already, but I was using a cheap AT for kick until now. What are some opinions on choosing one of these kick drum miks?
Thanks!!

[joel hamilton]

E602. I love it. it has been in the kick on almost every single project i have done for more than a year now!

Regardless of genre.

[Reuben]

Another vote for the Sennheiser.

I have an RE-20, and it's a great mic, but I have been finding it quite boring on kick, and not in the way I'd hoped.

[Derrick]

Joel, can you shed some light on what makes this stand out for you over these others? I unfortunately do not have the ability to try them all out to hear what I like best. What charachter/performance traits stand out on this one?

[kayagum]

Anybody try the Earthworks Kick Pad? Andy Hong thought it was too "rock", but.... anyone else?

[joel hamilton]

Joel, can you shed some light on what makes this stand out for you over these others? I unfortunately do not have the ability to try them all out to hear what I like best. What charachter/performance traits stand out on this one?

I have all the mics listed in the topic, and a FET47 and a few others for "kick" like a D12 and stuff...

The E602 seems to just have the right kind of beater presence I like. As soon as I learned to put the thing like ridiculously close to the head (2 to 3" MAX) right at the beater, I started getting exactly what I wanted to hear, especially mixed with some sort of other mic on the front head.

The 602 doesnt sound as "scooped" as the Beta 52, and not as "plastic" as the D112, but also not as "dim" as the RE20. Very subjective... The way this mic stands up to all the BS I subject it to in a mix, that is really why I love it.
Listening to the mics themselves, solo'd up, they all work, but after you wind up with a ton of other stuff happening: the E602 seems to sit better than anything else I have tried.

I guess it really is for the way it hears the beater most of all. Plenty of low end as well.
No EQ on the kick for me.

[Derrick]

Nice, I like that. With all the bad stuff I hear about the D112, it's hard to believe that it's been an industry standard. And the 52A is now the standard?
Is the SM-7 I already have even a contender with those others (D112, RE-20)? How about the MD421? The MD421 can be used for so many other things as well unlike most of thoes traditional "kick" mics. But I'd probably be fooling myself if I thought that I'd get anywhere near the performance from an SM-7 or MD421 that I would get from a e602 or a 52A.

[JASIII]

What "bad" stuff have you heard about the D112? Sure, it's not a "stick it in there and forget it" mic. I've found I get a good sound by putting pretty close to the beater head, but angled sideways so you're mic'ing the shell. Sounds nice, enough beater sound but mellowed in a nice way.

[Derrick]

The most common complaint (one which I can hear myself) is that it is very "clicky".

[joel hamilton]

The most common complaint (one which I can hear myself) is that it is very "clicky".

I think it is more the frequency of the "click" that is sounding a little dated to me these days. It is a perfectly good kick mic, but it sounds a little "plastic" to me compared to the snhsr.

I used a pair of 421's for a crazy heavy rock project with a drummer that played two 22" ludwig kicks. He used wooden beaters, and we took the front heads off... That sounded REALLY good, but had a really big low end defecit that needed to be filled in by the center ambient room mic (a C12). I ran the center room mic closer than usual to catch that, and a far mono room mic to really nail the center image in the room. the far mic was right up against a wood wall to use it as a boundary mic and get some low end out of it. I have a crazy ADR limiter with an expander built in that we were getting a big part of the kick snare sound from on the far room mic (mono). The 421 caught the beater just fine, but didnt have the body i would normally want from something in the kick.

[trodden]

The most common complaint (one which I can hear myself) is that it is very "clicky".

here is my issue, and Joel you've done a lot of heavy bands. I'm working with one and the drummer really really wants a lot of click in there. I've got a d112 in the drum and a at 4047 in a tunnel. Its pefect sounding.. but she really really wants more click.. so i'm DRASTICALLY eqing the in the drum mic, like scooping the mids even more and kicking up the 3 to 5 k at INSANE levels..

she likes it, i think it sounds funny. is there any way i can get that click being there without it sounding too "funny" or fake to me. I've listened to a ton of metal with the click, and this is kinda like it but still very "plastic" sounding. Do i just have a too big of Q on the eq perhaps, or is this just the d112 sound.. I really dont' want to borrow a D4 drum module and place a sample in there like other webboards have suggested.

funny.. i've got the wrong "click"

[joel hamilton]

The most common complaint (one which I can hear myself) is that it is very "clicky".

here is my issue, and Joel you've done a lot of heavy bands. I'm working with one and the drummer really really wants a lot of click in there. I've got a d112 in the drum and a at 4047 in a tunnel. Its pefect sounding.. but she really really wants more click.. so i'm DRASTICALLY eqing the in the drum mic, like scooping the mids even more and kicking up the 3 to 5 k at INSANE levels..

she likes it, i think it sounds funny. is there any way i can get that click being there without it sounding too "funny" or fake to me. I've listened to a ton of metal with the click, and this is kinda like it but still very "plastic" sounding. Do i just have a too big of Q on the eq perhaps, or is this just the d112 sound.. I really dont' want to borrow a D4 drum module and place a sample in there like other webboards have suggested.

funny.. i've got the wrong "click"

Before going at it with EQ, I start with trying various compressors.
I have found a few that give me good starting places, like a Collins 26-1U or even a DBX 160X !

If you can, simply chill on the EQ for a second, and try compressing the CHRIST out of the inside kick mic, but have enough make up gain so you can get it back up to level in the mix. Try messing with the attack time... like WAY slow, so ALL the beater gets through.

I can usually get a comp to make the "metal kick" happen without any EQ. Maybe even just a little EQ to take out some low mids, and boost a touch at like 5k on the pultec... I am lucky to have good tools at my disposal, but really: you can get it without EQ. Put the inside mic REALLY close to the beater. It will sound too clicky when you are getting sounds, then sound perfect after GTR OD #987,000 gets laid down...

[trodden]

werd joel. i'll work with my outboard comps and software comps. I should really try my "virtual" pultec as well.. supposedly it does a better job on boosts.

[Professor]

On the mics thing, I'm gonna have to say that the AKG D-12 is the 'classic' while the D-112 is a poor replacement. I tend to use mostly an RE-20 for a deeper rock sound and a Beta 52 for a higher "jazz" sound for all those numb-nuts jazz drummers that seem to think 18", 16" or similarly tiny kick drums are the 'classic sound' of jazz. I haven't tried the Senn. e602 but may have to give it a listen.

As for the clicky kick drum for your metal player, does she actually deliver the sound she wants at the drumset? I mean, does she hear the click she wants while she's playing, or is it the sound delivered out in front of the kit? I just figure the players could help out a little by tightening up the drum and usinng a thick head like an Aquarian.

-Jeremy

[fremitus]

my opinions...

d112 - cardboard sound, awesome rocker.
d12 - much better overall, nice pushy low end sound and presence without 'click'
e602 - obscene low end, awesome for hip hop and big drums
beta52 - my usual go to kick mic, a bit scooped but in a very useful way, i use less eq with this one than the others in general
421 - solid performer, no doubt, i don't like the sound of the high end on kicks with it so much
RE20 - i use it on bass cabs, a little too thick for kicks imo.
sm7 - i don't have one. dammit! i need more mics.

i have used a ton of others for live work, hell even a 57 will do great things in a pinch.