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drumsound
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Location: Bloomington IL
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 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:33 am Post subject: Re: wanted: mastering for thick arrangements |
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I forgot to mention JJ Golden at Golden Mastering in southern Cal. In DC you should talk to Chad at Silver Sonya. He's super cool.
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Oxide Lounge Recording
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wedge
tinnitus
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
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Location: Washington, D.C.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:07 am Post subject: Re: wanted: mastering for thick arrangements |
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| drumsound wrote: | | In DC you should talk to Chad at Silver Sonya. He's super cool. |
I do believe that I've actually met him and toured his space at inner ear. I'm a little wary of his hourly pricing structure, though. Most MEs go by a set price based upon the running length of the CD, no? Having an hourly rate kinda scares me. Reminds me of being a pimply-faced teenager in a real studio back in the day before home studios, and watching the clock run up its tab, while struggling with my nascent and hard-to-predict musicality. Trying to balance the two things on the fly always added a huge dollop of stress to my experience...
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MASSIVE Mastering
buyin' a studio
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 852
Location: Chicago (Schaumburg / Hoffman Est.) IL
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: wanted: mastering for thick arrangements |
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Most M.E.'s are hourly only - Several have "package" rates also - I added program-time bases rates for just that reason (client knowing the bottom line) but even those are based on an "average" session length vs. a certain amount of material.
As far as "clock stretching" is concerned, figure around 5 times the program length plus a little extra for burning/QC, etc. if there isn't too much sonic surgery going on.
And don't think that severe preparation won't make a difference - There's a studio that sends all their material here that never (to my recollection) has paid the full package price - Everything comes in numbered, named, noted and consistent (and with ample headroom). I still "start the clock" at the top of the session - If the hourly rate comes in below the package rate, they get the clock instead. Which in their case, is every time.
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Sheep in Punk Clothing
zen recordist
Joined: 07 May 2003
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Location: Spuyten Duyvil, Bronx NY
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: wanted: mastering for thick arrangements |
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| drumsound wrote: | | I forgot to mention JJ Golden at Golden Mastering in southern Cal. In DC you should talk to Chad at Silver Sonya. He's super cool. |
I worked with both Chad and JJ..both really nice guys..and was really happy with what they did..both very affordable too..
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wedge
tinnitus
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
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Location: Washington, D.C.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: wanted: mastering for thick arrangements |
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I'll check back with Chad, then, as he's a 15 minute drive from where I live...
Massive: I want to be prepared for just the reason that you sited. I'm a graphic designer and know of the importance of properly prepared files when sending to be printed, so I'm up to the task. What I don't know is the best way to go about preparing audio files for CD mastering, etc. What in your mind would be the most crucial steps?
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mixalot
audio school graduate
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 24
Location: NYC/BROOKLYN
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: wanted: mastering for thick arrangements |
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Tom Hutten- Bionic Mastering
bionicmastering.com
he just did a gorillaz radio mix i did . really good mastering job. |
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MASSIVE Mastering
buyin' a studio
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
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Location: Chicago (Schaumburg / Hoffman Est.) IL
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:54 pm Post subject: Re: wanted: mastering for thick arrangements |
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| wedge wrote: | | Massive: I want to be prepared for just the reason that you sited. I'm a graphic designer and know of the importance of properly prepared files when sending to be printed, so I'm up to the task. What I don't know is the best way to go about preparing audio files for CD mastering, etc. What in your mind would be the most crucial steps? |
It varies from facility to facility, but the studio I mentioned earlier has it down pat - Some of this is for the band's benefit, but it all saves an amazing amount of time here...
First off - With the band present, he opens a session in the DAW. Sequence everything, space everything and edit the files down to their final length - He puts 10-12 frames at the head of each mix and cuts the tails right to where the next track will start. Then saves each file in "Number Name" format (01 Intro.wav, 02 Next Tune.wav, etc.). I know that doesn't sound like much, but that means when I load in here, I just drag all the files into the DAW, and they're *perfectly* lined up as the artist requested, already with my "standard" 10-12 frames at the head. That just saved me a half hour (at least) in the long run trimming down to the 10-12 frame starts and gapping everything as requested.
When I process, all I have to do is line everything up with the original files. If there are gaps of at least a second or so between tracks, I don't even need to manually line up anything - DAW out to analog chain and back in onto another track. HUGE time-saver there.
He leaves a good amount of headroom - Peaks are normally well below -6dBfs. Nothing unusual there, but with that amount of headroom, he can usually come close to having all the mixes at the proper volume balance between tracks. During that same session with the band, he jots down any tracks that need to come up or down and roughly by how much. That takes the guesswork out of level adjustments - I know how they want the volume levels to flow throughout the project.
So essentially, I spend no time second-guessing anything, checking with the client on this or that - I load it in and start tweaking.
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wedge
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:38 am Post subject: Re: wanted: mastering for thick arrangements |
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Thanks for the info, John... I have to confess ignorance about the "10-12 frames" terminology, though. If I had to guess, frames = milliseconds?!?
Also, in the scenario that you outlined, how would one deal with crossfades? We have four crossfades on our CD...
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MASSIVE Mastering
buyin' a studio
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
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Location: Chicago (Schaumburg / Hoffman Est.) IL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: wanted: mastering for thick arrangements |
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CD Frame = 1/75th of a second. Basically, you don't want the start points right up against the head of the mix - A lot of CD players "ramp up" (for lack of a better term) and the first bit of audio might be missed. A 10-12 frame buffer zone can be used to stop that, yet still gives an "instant start" feel when the button is pressed (it's only around a seventh of a second or so).
It's not like it's a big deal to add that buffer during the session - But if it's already there, it'll certainly shave of a little time.
Good Q on the crossfades - If you're not attending the session, make a quickie recording of the crossfades as you like them and burn them to a disc as track-numbered PCM files (such as 3-4_Crossfade.wav, 8-9_Crossfade.wav, etc.).
When the M.E. is done with processing and is lining everything up, he/she can use those snippets of the crossfades as a reference.
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joel hamilton
zen recordist
Joined: 19 May 2003
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Location: NYC/Brooklyn
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: wanted: mastering for thick arrangements |
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Doug Henderson is the guy I try to send all my mixes to for mastering. I have worked on thigs that have gone to Sterling, the Lodge, Alan Douches, all over the place...
Doug Does EXACTLY what I love in mastering: Makes it sound right, and lets THAT dictate what level it will want to go to. That is as opposed to setting out with level in mind, then making it sound good up at the screaming level we are all working with these days/.
Especially with the more dense stuff i have done, i was 100 percent sure doug would master it, as preserving what transient information I actually left in there was key to the presentation...
Check out The Book Of Knots CD on arclight records.
Almost every song has about 50 tracks of stuff, usually more, sometimes less.
It is still very loud and forward and huge, but not "bright" or "squeezed" any more than the squeeze I was putting on in the mix....
Doug also has a Mercury award for his production work with Anthony and the Johnsons, along with a gold record, and many, many classic heavy credits as he was Dave Sardy's studio pertner for years.
Check out his credits at allmusic. He understands left of center, heavy music, which is what I seem to be involved in a bunch...
dbhenderson@mindspring[dot]com is his email address.
Tell him I sent you. he is a very busy guy, so email soon to even talk to him...
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wedge
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: wanted: mastering for thick arrangements |
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Massive... Thanks again for the input... Our CD is but a few breaths away from being mastered, and I find myself wondering about the headroom issue. I've heard -3 and -6, but my main question is, should I use a limiter on the stereo buss to keep the headroom free? I'm not an expert at mixing (in ProTools) so my headroom varies quite a bit from tune to tune. It sure would be quick and convenient for me to L1 those stray transients outa the headroom, but I worry about sending the whole song through one more process, thus possibly effecting the sound quality of the tracks. What would you recommend?
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JohnDavisNYC
ghost haunting audio students
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: wanted: mastering for thick arrangements |
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NO L1!!! NO L1!!! dynamics processing is the ME's job... if you squash everything to be coming out at -3 with an L1, the ME can't do anything to the audio. basically, you should have your gain structure such that the loudest peak in the song is at -3 or so... -6 if the ME prefers it. I don't know the PT internal gain structure, but i assume that you could use the master fader to make that happen... if the output is peaking at 0, turn the master fader down 3 db. i'm sure someone who knows PT better can chime in.
cheers,
john
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wedge
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: wanted: mastering for thick arrangements |
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That's easy to handle... I'll just pull the fader down if necessary... the other thing is: -3 or -6 ?!?
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MASSIVE Mastering
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:18 am Post subject: Re: wanted: mastering for thick arrangements |
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"Somewhere around there" is fine. Honestly. -3 if it makes you feel better.
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wedge
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: wanted: mastering for thick arrangements |
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| toaster3000 wrote: | | NO L1!!! NO L1!!! dynamics processing is the ME's job... |
I actually didn't want to use a limiter to squash at all. I was thinking instead of just using it's "brickwall" abilities, so to speak, in order to shave off the occasional audio spike and keeping a few db's clear up top. No squashing at all, though...
Looking at my files, I'm realizing that in mose cases only one or two peaky transients defines the headroom, and if I could just bring those pesky little buggers down, I'd be fine and have more, well, headroom...
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