Gyraf G9 [first time DIY]

[pandatone]

hi, i was thinking about starting, what would be my first DIY project.
and the Gyraf G9 looks like where i might start. but my only experience is building cables.. [tons!! of cables.. XRL, TRS, BNC, Dsubs, you name it, i hand wired a video post studio.]
anyways. is the project doable for a first timer? i should i look at something like the hamptone JFET? i figure the G9 might actually be cheaper since i could soarce out parts from where ever.. but! i don't get niffy directions.

thanks

panda

[ulriggribbons]

The other thing to take into account, as a first time builder, is that the G9 is using potentially lethal voltages.

Not to discourage you from doing it, but keep this in mind when working. Work carefully if you go down that path.

You might try a kit project as a first go. Once you finish one, and get the experience behind you, you'll probably feel like tackling the other projects is not so difficult.

Regards

ju

[soundguy]

the first time you build something larger like this its probably not gonna work. that means once its all put together you now have to fuck around and make it work.

people get lucky every day on this issue, but I think its just plan and simple STUPID to be building any kind of tube equipment unless you are %100 sure how exactly the circuit can kill you and the circuit can in fact kill you. The folks that tackle tube projects for the first time in a world where there are solid state equivalents that sound as good or better and just plain and simple stupid if they do so before learning about how high voltage circuits cause death. If you must build a tube thing you should really get an education on how and where the high voltage is and how to carefully work around this.

I would not consider things you've read on the internet to be an "education". Find someone that knows about the stuff and have them show you in person and make sure you understand what is going on before screwing around yourself.

Building a cool mic pre or limiter is not worth killing yourself, one of your friends or clients who may use the box or a friend or family member who might stumble onto your work bench and touch the wrong thing.

Please know what you are doing before working on tube stuff. It can really kill you, dead in a box undergound dead. Just because you can get the schematic online doesnt really mean you should be building the stuff.

dave

[pandatone]

thanks for the tips on not blowing my head up. think i'll check something else out.
well i understand the threat of death to be a serious one. i found dave's reply to be pretty diss-harting, and has sorta killed some interest. though i'm sure his intentions are good. [helping people not die seems like a good thing]

panda

[soundguy]

I hope I dont discourage you from building something, there are just inherent dangers to high voltage TUBE circuits that I think a lot of people overlook or discount with "cant happen to me" type thinking.

there are piles of solid state circuits that rule which wont harm you in the least bit. Its best to build some solid state stuff first, get your wiring skills up, get your trouble shooting skills up, figure out basic principles of grounding, get your overall chops up and THEN try a tube circuit.

For instance, if you ground the wrong wire in a high voltage circuit to the chasis, if you are grounded and you then touch the chasis you can die. Is this a likely scenario? Of course not. Is it possible? Yes. Will you make mistakes? More than probably. Its one of many mistakes that can screw with your health. Building a mic pre isnt worth that kind of risk IMO. Its easy to educate yourself, just try and do so before attempting a tube project, that is the point of my post.

If you are tying to build from a kit, the seventh circle stuff is great, I built and used N72's for years. The hamptone jfet kit is great. I use that all the time and it doesnt sound like anything you can run out to the store and buy either, which is a real cool reason to build it. Both kits are easy enough, well put together and very smartly priced. Neither contain any lethal voltages and both will serve as a great place to start, you can learn alot from building either and when you are done you will have a preamp that is as or more usable than ANYTHING you can buy from basically ANYONE, yes this includes those $2000 mic pre's too.

If you are more adventurous and want to do it all on your own, there are tons of projects over at prodigy-pro and a wealth of support to figure out how to put it all together.

If you make the wrong mistake with diy and seriously injur yourself, its quitte possible that your with what you'll pay for hospital bills and all that shit that you could have gone out and bought the most awesome gear in the land. Be smart withte projects you chose to build, the dangers inherent in tube equipment is really not spoken about enough compared to the amount of new guys that really want to build stuff that have no idea that there is even a remote chance that thheir power supply can kill them.

If later ddown the line you get into building tube stuf, I havent built one but kandkaudio.com has a kit for an rca pre which looks like it would be pretty hapening.

dave

[pandatone]

so i looked around at solid state pre's. and other then the hamptone, nothing seems of to much interest to me for some reason. but, i don't think i'm going to start with the hamptone JFET.. well it might be the easiest way to go. i learn the best if i'm forced to work some. so i'm going to build a Gssl comp clone.
and hell! to help myself along.. i'm going to keep a step by step blog of the event. and hopefully more if all goes OK. =)
right here.. http://www.pliink.com/mt/diy/

anyone reccomend a place to order parts and supplies in the US? all the stuff at gyraf seems to be from a place in austrailia. ?

panda

[soundguy]

mouser and or digikey.

have you ever heard an SSL limiter? They kinda suck. The G-SSL is a great project if thats the sound you are looking for but if you've neevr heard the circuit before you might try to check it out first. It excels in that strangulated choked kind of limiting and pretty much fails at everything else.

dave

[gyraf]

Dave,

I don't think you're being fair to the mentioned compressor.

It certainly is a thingy with it's own characteristics, but to claim that it "excels in that strangulated choked kind of limiting and pretty much fails at everything else" would be a gross exaggeration like saying that 1176's excells at that late-1970's electric bass sound and pretty much fails at everything else..

In my opinion the clone is a very versatile tool - even as a mono compressor for vocals or bass - or as a stereo compressor for either mix, drum-subgroups or stereo mike sets..

Off course it will take some time to get to know the unit and to figure out how to get the most from it's personality - but this is no different from any other "real" professional tool in your studio.

Jakob E.

[matta]

I?ll second Jakob,

I have built and own one and find it a VERY versatile tool and use it on a
variety or sources, it isn?t a one trick pony by any means.

I see you own one of these clones on you gear list so you must know how it
sounds, but still.

For a budding DIY?er getting into DIY I think the SSL is cool, easy project,
with tons of documentation, along with readily available PCB?s and sounds
great.

I?m very happy with mine, I?ll prob. get around to building another one, got
a few other projects to wrap up including my G1176.

Cheers

Matt

P.S ?Dave, for someone you claims ?cloning is crap? you sure own a few clones
(GSSL + G1176), including the N72?s and the Vintech, which you are selling?

[chrissugar]

I also like the GSSL comps. Of course it is not a universal comp but there are enough applications where it sounds great.
It is a good advice from Dave, first to play with one for a while if possible, and decide if you want to build it.

chrissugar

[luckybastard]

how hard is that compressor to build. the only diy experience i have is the hamptone tube kit and i'm dying to build something else..

[soundguy]

matt-

I have built a lot of clones and will say again that cloning is lame.

I personally cant stand the sound of SSL consoles for rock and think the limiter is terrible. Im not a big fan of VCA limiters in the first place but feel like whatever I stick into an SSL limiter comes out choked, mangled and shitty. My comments arent pointed at the clone in particular but the circuit as a whole. Ive used real 384's, alan smarts and built a G-ssl and they all behave the same way. Its definitley a matter of taste, SSL has such a good reputation of being "good" people look at you like you have three heads when you say it sucks, the limiter fromm the console is obviously no exception to that rule. In comparison, the console limiter Ive used sounds a lot thicker than the clone circuit that is published but they really behave pretty much the same. If you like VCA limiters, its the most powerful VCA limiter I can think of.

so far as building it goes, its a somple project if you buy one of the boards for sale at the lab. Its a cool first project because there are no transformers and you dont have to deal with spending crazy amounts of time shielding the power transformer which you can easily put insidde the same chasis.

If you dont have any "good" compressors Im sure you'll love it for a week after y ou build it. Just be aware that its not like the end all be all awesome the way it gets talked about. I have one, I almost never use it.

dave

[matta]

Hey Dave,

I understand someone in your position and gear list wouldn't need to clone gear, owning many, if not most/all of the originals of various clones that are offered up along with a ton of various compressors options, FET, VCA and Opto.

That said alot of Tape Op'ers don't have the extensive collection of gear you have and many, myself included, aspire to. In fact I still revel in the fact that after the reading the Tape Op Book seeing what little gear guys got away with creating such great artistic masterpieces and the reason I enjoy reading up and what drew me into the Tape Op vibe/culture in the first place, creative recording, using the limitation you have and working around them, or using them to their best. If a SSL is all you got, then you get the most out it you know.

I 'm just trying to share that for a lot of these guys, myself included cloning is a great, and often inexpensive way of get quality gear, and learning a lot about electronics and troubleshooting them, heck knows I have learnt so much in my short time in DIY. I used to pay someone to make my cables!

I've been able, through my experiences learn how to wire my own cables, fix my some of my gear, rebuilt a couple power supplies, work on amps, adapted ideas/schemo and built my own bits and pieces, and I owe it to cloning and some VERY gracious, helpful and wonderfully caring people at Group DIY.

Luckybastard, if you built a Hamptone you will easily be able to build an GSSL or G1176.

Heck touch wood I've built 4 pre clones, 1 Eq clone, 2 Compressors, with NO background in electronics and they ALL worked on power up, a couple grounding issues and tweaks, but the all passed audio and sounded good, now they sound great. And none of these were kits, only boards and I had to source all the parts myself, it is half the fun.


Matt

[luckybastard]

thanks for the encouragement... i had a blast building the hamptone and i'm mighty afraid that i've been bitten by the diy bug. in fact, i'm in the process of scoring a couple of pm1000 modules and i'm trying to rack them for 2 more channels of quality pre. speaking of getting the parts for these diy projects, where is the best place for me to find rack enclosures and psu for this project. after i get done with this one, i'm thinking about compressors next:)

[matta]

LB,

I assume you are in the US, in which case (no pun intended), try Par-Metal, good solid cases, and excellent service.

As far as a PSU, check out Joe Malone's PSU Kit, very neat, I have one in my rack with some racked pres and EQ's.

Hope that helps.

Matt