Acoustic Guitar Techniques

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:50 pm

For an acoustic and voice together I often use a figure 8 for the vocal. It keeps the guitar out of the vocal nicely. Then I have some options with compression, EQ and even effects.

Sometimes I get one mic so it works of both sources nicely and record that way.

Meriphew · Post by **Meriphew** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:04 pm

Gibson Gospel > Neumann KM-184's (stereo pair) > API pres > HD. Mics are set up in X-Y configuration.

syrupcore · Post by **syrupcore** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:18 pm

my starting point is a pair of NT5s xy just above the seated guitarists head. they end up pointed behind the hole and the 12th fret. I adjust from there.

luckybastard · Post by **luckybastard** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:17 am

i agree with joel... i have messed around with stereo recording techniques for acoustic for a long time and lately, i've just been throwing up an oktava through a tube pre, putting it where it needs to be for the vibe i'm trying to get and pressing play. i've been getting some of the best acoustic sounds for what i do that i've ever gotten... go figure...

GrimmBrotherScott · Post by **GrimmBrotherScott** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:59 am

For you guys mentioning recording someone on acoustic and singing...I would think that at that point your objective stops being recording the performances "as seperate as possible" and becomes capturing the performance as a whole. There is just something good about someone playing and singing at the same time that to me is virtually impossible to recreate a la individual tracks. It ends up making things somewhat sterile.

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:06 am

luckybastard wrote:i agree with joel... i have messed around with stereo recording techniques for acoustic for a long time and lately, i've just been throwing up an oktava through a tube pre, putting it where it needs to be for the vibe i'm trying to get and pressing play. i've been getting some of the best acoustic sounds for what i do that i've ever gotten... go figure...

It is amazing when you just get a good mic, a good mic pre, and hit record.
There s a beauty to simplicity. Simple solutions can be quite elegant. Have tons of weird phase issues? Try ONE mic, set up properly. Can have more depth than two mics with unflattering phase relationships. want width? Double track the AC gtr in mono. Pan each performance. Play tight: stereo awesomeness.

I love the focused sound of "broad mono" type recording. The acoustics during playback, even in headphones seem to fill in soem of the "stereo" information, as long as the mono AC track has a beautiful, rich, complex tone that illicits good things in ears....

Phiz · Post by **Phiz** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:55 am

GrimmBrotherScott wrote:...at that point your objective stops being recording the performances "as seperate as possible" and becomes capturing the performance as a whole.

I certainly see where you are coming from and in theory agree. Unfortunately the non-pro artists I've been recording aren't wonderful about keeping the guitar and vocal volumes approriately balanced. Also, for my projects there are several additional parts, some of which are simultaneously on the same take and some which are overdubed, and I'd be hard pressed to get all the parts sitting well together without some degree of independence between the vocal and the guitar parts.

Someday I hope to do a project that is just person with guitar, no overdubs and nail it with just a stereo pair or even a single mic. But I have yet to find the right artist for that...

GrimmBrotherScott · Post by **GrimmBrotherScott** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:33 am

Good point regarding the artist. I HAVE had some good luck recently as the artists I have been working with have been really open to my suggestions as far as the recording goes. It makes it much easier to speak in theory. In a month or two I am supposed to record the hardest basher I have ever heard (drummer), so I will report back with my theory then, heh.

heylow · Post by **heylow** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:20 pm

I have found that I really like to add a good dose of space to acoustic guitars and that most acoustic tracks don't really sound as much like cool acoustic tracks without compression at some point. Obviously, how much of either I use will completely depend on how the track will be used.

In a rock mix, I have really taken to dirtying them up using old dynamics like the EV666 and the 635A and often adding a little bit of overdrive either at the pre or compressor. Compress to taste....instant rockin' old Stones vibe. What can I say....that's what I like! Add in a "nice" mic semi-close or a bit out in the room to enhance the vibe or save your ass....whichever gets you the most mileage.

If it's more of an open track, I like to really use the guitar as a true acoustic instrument. I try to keep the mic off of the guitar as much as I can get away with in a given situation. I feel like acoustic instruments tend to even out a bit more and "blossom" with a little space. This isn't a rule, of course...just a starting point for me. I sometimes like to add a room mic as well and compress to taste (although much less in this situation).

On the subject of stereo, I've been working more and more with odd stereo images versus the traditional stereo approach. It can be wierd phase-wise but when it works, it can sound really interesting. Just an extra thought.

Strings can really change things up a lot as well. I have been using D'addarrio Flat Tops for an earthier vibe....they're not actually flat wounds....they're just flattened a bit and this kind gives them a duller sound....a bit like a good set of slightly broken in strings. I like it....helps with the finger noise too.

I think the 2 most important things said already in this thread, when it all comes down to it, are that source matters and you put the mic where it sounds good.

heylow

Red Rockets Glare · Post by **Red Rockets Glare** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:51 am

I've posted this before, but this was recorded live, (singing and acoustic) and I think the bleed makes it work better.

Vocal - 2001 Royer mod - Ampex Tube mic pre
Acoustic - ribbon (ML52) and 421 pointing at almost the exact same part of the lower bought of the acoustic and panned hard left and right. Through a 1272 mic pre.

The vocal mic picked up the shimmer of the stings and the other mics picked up the wooly wood.

http://www.theidahofalls.com/pages/memb ... iteOne.mp3

OneZero · Post by **OneZero** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:26 pm

I gotta agree with Nacho. Alice mic is the essentially a "make my guitar sound beautiful" button. I can't get over how great this mic is.

Mono on drums too.

thearnicasync · Post by **thearnicasync** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:44 pm

Hmmm, I thought I'd have nothing to add to this...maybe I still don't:

Dreadnaught (sp?):

Directly over the soundhole is mushy, low mids mania and mixing HEADACHE. Actually, I take that back...it's mixing impossiblity for me.

I feel like with acou guitar you get three choices: close, room, or somewhere inbetween...which suits the project? I guess there have been a few revelations:

1. a good LDC (soundelux u195) that tamed the crappy high end I usually associate with the exaggerated crap of Ovation guitars.
2. Moving the mic away from the guitar some and adding a touch of 1176-style comp.
3. Boosting a good eq 0-2.5 dB at 1.5k or so. I'd never thought to experiment with it down there, and for my guitar that's where the articulation is. 4. A good eq cut (again, 0 to -2.5db) at at 300-450hz.

With an auditorium style, smaller body, you can get away with less lows-bashing...

kb

thearnicasync · Post by **thearnicasync** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:40 pm

heylow wrote:
In a rock mix, I have really taken to dirtying them up using old dynamics like the EV666 and the 635A and often adding a little bit of overdrive either at the pre or compressor. Compress to taste....instant rockin' old Stones vibe. What can I say....that's what I like! Add in a "nice" mic semi-close or a bit out in the room to enhance the vibe or save your ass....whichever gets you the most mileage.

I'm starting to do this too...best candidate so far is (strangely enough) the EH Holy Grail with as little reverb dialed in as the pedal will allow.

toddlans · Post by **toddlans** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:32 pm

i did a fun little record with my friend damon from inouk, and it was all live acoustic and vocals in my living room tracked into logic on my laptop and then mixed to 1/4"... it turned out amazingly well, and i used almost nothing to get the results... i used a CAD E100 (the one i'm selling... Razz ) on the guitar and a Rode NT1 (also selling... Razz ) kind of in a backwards X/Y, so that the diaphragms were pretty much 90 degrees off, but right next to each other, and had one aimed up towards his mouth and the other aimed down towards the guitar. these went through Sytek pres, into an 828. after a little tweaking, everything worked well, and sounded amazing...(yes, even the NT1 sounded amazing for this stuff)... some how it all worked and sounded genuine and real and suprisingly 'pro'... still something i have on my demo reel, after all the nice mics and tape machines and pres.

anyway, that XY ish idea gave me really good seperation (the null point of each cardioid mic was facing the other sound) and what leakage there was was in phase. yay.

john.

wait, can you explain more of what you mean about the backwards xy pattern? I might be retarded at the moment but I can't visualize what you're saying. seriously, i've been sitting here for like 5-10 minutes pretending my index fingers are mics trying figure this out. if the diaphragms are close together (as in like almost touching, like in XY) and they are 90 degrees apart, how can it be anything but normal XY? Are you saying they are in XY but you rotated the set 90 degrees so they are vertical (as in one is facing up, and one is facing down, rather than left and right)? I'm just wondering what you're talking about because it sounds like something I'd like to know, but I can't visualize what you're saying. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I can't understand what you mean by the description. probably just me. thanks.

surf's up · Post by **surf's up** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:34 am

joel hamilton wrote: want width? Double track the AC gtr in mono. Pan each performance. Play tight: stereo awesomeness.

I love this approach when I want a wide sound with the acoustic. It does demand a tighter performance. Though sometimes SOMETIMES the inconsistincies between the two takes in a more volatile performance adds its own character to the recording (i.e. "******" by jets to brazil)

As far as what I typically do, its usually that or more often just a single mono take. I usually use a 414 up pretty high on the fingerboard, maybe 5-7th fret. This helps me get the acoustic closer to where i want it to sit in the mix, generally, so i wont have to eq much later. if im doing a song with a more stripped down arrangement, something where the guitar has to fill out more colors in the sonic rainbow, ill move the mic down closer to the soundhole. I hate putting much eq on acoustic, except for high passing the lows, so i like to get it as close as possible during tracking.

Message Board

Acoustic Guitar Techniques

Who is online