Choosing a DAW for educational purposes

[moondog24]

Greetings,

Let me begin by apologizing if you have come across this posting in more than one forum. I am casting a wide net in the hopes of taking advantage of as many varying groupings of expertise as I can.

I hope you?ll bear with a bit of introduction before I get to my actual questions. I have been enlisted by a local college to help develop a course of study for an associate?s degree program in Audio Recording.

The goal is for graduates of this program to be in a position to step into an entry level position in one of several areas of the industry or to be able to transfer into a 4 year degree program using the credits they earn with us.

So far, the courses in this program can be divided into 3 groupings.

1)Students will be required to take a certain number of general education courses.

2)There will be core grouping of courses in recording. Included in the core courses will be classes covering the physics of sound, acoustics, basic and intermediate courses in recording and production, digital recording, MIDI, studio operations, and DAW recording/production.

3)Students will be able to choose one of several concentrations, in which they can study a particular field in more depth. Examples of possibilities for concentrations are audio for video games, film/video post, broadcast, and emerging technologies (internet, ring tones, sound for toys, etc).

Since this program is starting from scratch, my task includes developing the course curricula and ?spec-ing? out the studios and equipment that will be used.

My first set of questions involves choosing a DAW platform. It seems to me that once we?ve taught the basics that apply to recording regardless of medium or platform, we need to do some in-depth DAW work. Three questions then present themselves:

1)?Which platform do we focus on??
2)?Do we focus on that platform exclusively or do we also offer overviews of other platforms??
3)?If we offer overviews of other programs, which ones??

At this point, my feeling is that, for better or worse, Pro Tools is nearly ubiquitous in the industry and we therefore need to make that our featured platform. What I?d want to do is supplement 2 courses in Pro Tools with a course that presents an overview of other programs. Some candidates that come to mind are Nuendo, Cubase, Reason, Sonar, Live, Sound Forge/Vegas, and Traktion. I?m sure there are others I?m forgetting.

I should mention that we're talking about a PC house, although there will be at least one class designed to familiarize students with the Mac platform.

I?m open to any thoughts, suggestions, or other input you might be willing to offer about any of these issues. If you think of other issues that we should be taking into account, I would greatly appreciate hearing about them as well. Of course, I can provide more clarifying info if needed.

Finally, is anyone aware of a forum specifically targeted to educators in the recording/production field? I?ve poked around a bit and didn?t find anything I recognized as fitting that description, but my search was by no means exhaustive.

Thanks for your time and help,

Hoby Ebert

[Silverlode]

I would think that next in line to ProTools for widespread use in studios is Logic, so be sure to touch on that when you review the Mac, which brings me to my second point...

If there's an eduactional program that wants to truly equip individuals and also earn any kind of reputation...it should probably be a Mac house. Go ahead and flame me, but the majority of work out there, even using ProTools, is on a Mac.

Cheers.

[syrupcore]

it's true. most tdm systems are on a mac. sounds like you've got it pretty well sussed out. I might take the 1 or 2 HD system(s) and a bunch of mboxes approach so everyone can get edit/record time but also get some real HD time with voice allocation and all that crap. anyone who has enough money to actually hire additional engineers is proly running HD.

2 cents.
Will

[moondog24]

Thanks for the replies. You're confirming what I pretty much assumed.

it's true. most tdm systems are on a mac. sounds like you've got it pretty well sussed out. I might take the 1 or 2 HD system(s) and a bunch of mboxes approach so everyone can get edit/record time but also get some real HD time with voice allocation and all that crap. anyone who has enough money to actually hire additional engineers is proly running HD.

2 cents.
Will

Will, when I think of the "bunch of Mboxes" arrangement, I get hung up on how to provide adequate monitoring for all those Mbox stations. Obviously, the HD systems need to be in something approaching an actual studio environment, but how do we balance the need for everyone to have equipment access with space limitations? Are we talking about a bunch of MBox systems in cubicles in one large room with everyone on headphones? Lots of small "closets" (editing booths), each with a system?

I'm not expecting complete solutions, just wrestling with near-future issues. There's many a mile between where we are now and the program's start, but I feel like I need to start lobbying now for consciousness about the special physical needs of audio production. Any ideas/input/leads are most appreciated.

Thanks,

hoby

[syrupcore]

unless you're worried about things springing legs, laptops+headphones is an awesome way to save space. the last office gig I had went this route cause we were out of cubicle space and it seemed to double our size. anyone can work anywhere. We didn't do much audio work. mostly video editing.

Where's Jeremy? very different from me, he actually seems to know what he's talking about.

Will

[moondog24]

unless you're worried about things springing legs, laptops+headphones is an awesome way to save space. the last office gig I had went this route cause we were out of cubicle space and it seemed to double our size. anyone can work anywhere. We didn't do much audio work. mostly video editing.

Where's Jeremy? very different from me, he actually seems to know what he's talking about.

Will

The beauty/scary part of it is that the space hasn't been defined. I wouldn't say it's bluse sky, because there will be $$$ and "creating within the existing space" constraints.

But whatever the setup, I think security would be an issue.

I don't see any way around at least part of the students' time being spent on 'phones, but my own personal prejudice is that extended mixing sessions on 'phones is a bad habit to teach both in terms of mixing skills and ear health.

Ah well, I'm confident answers and compromises will present themselves as we progress.

Thanks Will,

hoby

[JES]

Finally, is anyone aware of a forum specifically targeted to educators in the recording/production field? I?ve poked around a bit and didn?t find anything I recognized as fitting that description, but my search was by no means exhaustive.

Thanks for your time and help,

Hoby Ebert

I'd be pleasantly surpriused if there was one. No question that you should go with ProTools, much as I hate it. The additional platform thing, I don't know. Wherever your students wind up next, they're going to have to learn the system there anyway, and they may well wind up with something like Logic or DP that you can't teach on PC. It's so much guessing and so much changes over time, that I imagine your best bet is to choose a platform and then spend your teaching energies on the skillset the students need to do computer recording no matter where they land.

I'm not in the position of teaching audio, but I'm under some pressure from the dean's office to set up a kind of sound lab here. If I do it, and I'm not sure that I will (the music department has an amazing setup -- why should I reproduce it in the faculty of arts?), I'm going to invest as much as possible in stuff that won't need to be replaced every few years. Every computer that I buy is an expense I will see again in a few years' time and software eventually costs to update.

Best,
--JES

[hammertime]

If there is such a forum, it would probably be listed on www.theprojectstudiohandbook.com. Click the forums link and see.

Finally, is anyone aware of a forum specifically targeted to educators in the recording/production field? I?ve poked around a bit and didn?t find anything I recognized as fitting that description, but my search was by no means exhaustive.

Thanks for your time and help,

Hoby Ebert

I'd be pleasantly surpriused if there was one. No question that you should go with ProTools, much as I hate it. The additional platform thing, I don't know. Wherever your students wind up next, they're going to have to learn the system there anyway, and they may well wind up with something like Logic or DP that you can't teach on PC. It's so much guessing and so much changes over time, that I imagine your best bet is to choose a platform and then spend your teaching energies on the skillset the students need to do computer recording no matter where they land.

I'm not in the position of teaching audio, but I'm under some pressure from the dean's office to set up a kind of sound lab here. If I do it, and I'm not sure that I will (the music department has an amazing setup -- why should I reproduce it in the faculty of arts?), I'm going to invest as much as possible in stuff that won't need to be replaced every few years. Every computer that I buy is an expense I will see again in a few years' time and software eventually costs to update.

Best,
--JES

[Cyan421]

Wow, such a wide river you have just jumped into.

Apple pretty much has the market of professional everything cornered. Video editing, sound for film, photographers, recording studios.

If you want people to learn how to do sound for film, I think pro tools is the only option. Pro Tools HD is still in its baby years for PC.

I think you should also teach MIDI as it is a very useful and common tool in studios and live rigs today (even at its old age). DP and Logic are both superior to Pro Tools in the MIDI department.

I don't think cubicles and headphones is a bad choice for learning how to edit and record in and DAW. I don't think you should have people mixing in that kind of situation. [/b]