Editing drum takes 101

[sleep over jack]

So... I think you all know what my question is going to be.

I've never edited drum takes before, but I'm working on a project where it is neccessary. Drummer played to a click and the takes really aren't that bad, but there are a few bad hits here and there during every song, and a few tempo issues here and there.

I know the process is tedious, but how hard is it to get right? I would imagine I would just put up a grid and then scoot notes so that they begin on the appropriate beat. Right? (Using Cubase SX 1)

[joel hamilton]

Either move the few offensive hits by hand/ear, or open a whole can of worms trying to impose a grid on a persons performance. Even the best drummers I record, when subjected to "THE GRID" lose all the feel, and push and pull. Even when the hits are stupidly spot on, you can tell the difference.

I personally go after inddividual hits, and maybe a fill here or there.. Whatever it ttakes in the end of course, but it really is a WHOLE other process unless you just go after two or three offensive fills or hits.

Just my opinion.

[sleep over jack]

yeah, i'm not planning on completely retiming the takes. one or two bad hits a song, and then one or two moments during a song that is obviously a little behind or ahead of the click.

however, let's say i wanted to do the whole take - how is that different from just spot-fixes? doing by grid vs doing it ear?

[cgarges]

By "the whole take" do you mean that the drummer is ahead or behind everyone else or that you don't want to take the time to do the spots that are bad-funky individually?

I find that if I have to move something a drumer played more than once or more than a couple of milliseconds, it sounds more natural to do a couple of shifts in different spots--like, edit from beat one and move it a couple of milliseconds, then edit again from beat two and move it a couple of milliseconds. That usually sounds less jerky to me. Also, see what you can get away with by editing all the drum tracks. For example, if the kick drum is early, don't just move the kick drum track. I usually zoom in on the waveform and find the spot where the least is going on (it's usually right before a note is played) and do the edit there. And I always try to line stuff up with whatever another instrument is playing--I almost never line up directly with the click. With careful use of crossfades and placement, you can trick the ear into not hearing the edits at all.

Hope this helps.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Slider]

I move those hits around until it sounds good to me.
I'll do this with free time drums as well as click track drums as needed.
I always try to capture a feel and leave it intact as much as possible though.

In Cubase SX group all the drum tracks (files in project window) first, then cut the "bad" hits and drag or nudge them until they sound good to you, then crossfade (or set up an auto crossfade setting that works).
simple enough.

[jca83]

when i edit drums - and i do a lot of it- i group the drum tracks.. i never edit JUST one drum, because you've got a whole performance there, several mics on one source, etc... if the player is playing his kick a certain way, you can adjust that timing but it won't mess with how it relates to his other hits.

chopping the drum tracks beat by beat is something i have to do a lot. most of the time, the producer tracked the rhythm section to a series of loops, and those are what i pocket to.

i'll try to get the drum tracks just a millisecond or two off the loop, always behind, never before the beat, to give it some groove but keep it tight.

i will (be paid to) pocket all the tracks on a song, and i'll do the drums tight, the bass tight, and the other instruments just to fix or make sound better in general.

[drumsound]

when i edit drums - and i do a lot of it- i group the drum tracks.. i never edit JUST one drum, because you've got a whole performance there, several mics on one source, etc... if the player is playing his kick a certain way, you can adjust that timing but it won't mess with how it relates to his other hits.

chopping the drum tracks beat by beat is something i have to do a lot. most of the time, the producer tracked the rhythm section to a series of loops, and those are what i pocket to.

i'll try to get the drum tracks just a millisecond or two off the loop, always behind, never before the beat, to give it some groove but keep it tight.

i will (be paid to) pocket all the tracks on a song, and i'll do the drums tight, the bass tight, and the other instruments just to fix or make sound better in general.

That sounds like factory work to me...

[Professor]

With or without a click track in the session, my preference is acutally to cut the whole band in much larger sections than just a few notes or measures. I'll typically grab a whole 8 or 16 bars of verse or chorus and swap from between multiple takes of the tune. You would be amazed at how consistent most musicians are with tempo across multiple takes. Then even if they're off by a few clicks up or down, it's not so noticeable when there is a nice fill bringing the group into a verse or chorus and then another fill bringing them back out.
Since you did record to a click, you can potentially move just the drums from one take to the next. You could grab just a fill or note easily enough, though be careful with the sustain of crash cymbals and other little details across cuts. But here my preference is still to grab larger sections and if necessary, bring other instruments (bass & guitar) along to maintain the feel within the group - it's pretty rare that the bass is still referencing the click while the drums are not.
The big thing no matter how and where you cut is to stagger your cross-fades at different points. For example, if you have a nice cut at a downbeat, you might pull the kick back to beat four and cross-fade there, but not cross-fade the snare until beat two, while the overheads are cut right on the downbeat. Generally just cross-fading on attacks for each instrument rather than trying to fade across decays of instruments will help keep things sounding clean. It takes some getting used to, but once you get the hang of this you'll have people in awe at how well the cuts can hide.

-Jeremy

[jca83]

That sounds like factory work to me...

hit factory?

[Professor]

That sounds like factory work to me...

hit factory?

No, I imagine he meant "Made with pride in the People's Republic of China" kinda factory.

[JGriffin]

A fairly high percentage of pro audio work could be called "factory work," actually. Especially outside the music world.

[jca83]

That sounds like factory work to me...

hit factory?

No, I imagine he meant "Made with pride in the People's Republic of China" kinda factory.

i was being sarcastic..

[drumsound]

You're in Nashville, that town is all about the hits!

[jca83]

You're in Nashville, that town is all about the hits!

exactly. this editing is a big nashville thing.. so to get work, i do that. it's not too bad, and i can definitely tell a difference. good news is, the people i work for HATE beat detective style drums, so most of the time even though i'm messing with the whole drum take, it's still live feeling and human when i'm done, there's just no mistakes.

[leigh]

You're in Nashville, that town is all about the hits!

exactly. this editing is a big nashville thing.. so to get work, i do that. it's not too bad, and i can definitely tell a difference. good news is, the people i work for HATE beat detective style drums, so most of the time even though i'm messing with the whole drum take, it's still live feeling and human when i'm done, there's just no mistakes.

I'm curious, jca83 - is this done just with bands that come in, or with session musicians as well?

Leigh