clocking a 002r

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bantam
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clocking a 002r

Post by bantam » Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:14 am

ok so i have my 002r clocked via spdif to my apogee mini me.

question is if i add 8 channels via lightpipe do i have to use the digi clock for everything? i know that wordclock is used to fix this but no wordclock in the 002r.

is there any way to make these 3 devices sync using the best of the 3 clocks (im sure the digi002r is NOT the best clock).
thanks

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Post by JGriffin » Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:16 pm

We had absolute disasters with this exact same setup when they were all on separate clocks...unfortunately I think we were only able to get them all clocked together to the 002 clock. Someone else might have a better notion.
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Post by Al_Huero » Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:51 pm

There is if your ADAT device has an ADAT input port it can sync its clock to. I have an Apogee Mini-Me and a Tango24 8 channel AD/DA that has the option. Everything is synced to the Apogee over the S/PDIF input of the 002R. The ADAT output of the 002R carries the clock signal to the Tango24. Works fine; no issues since I replaced some alder Toslink cables.

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Post by Red Rockets Glare » Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:07 pm

I have been mixing with 16 channels using the MiniMe for clocking and the Alesis AI-3 for the extra 8 channels and have had no problems whatsoever on the 002 platform.
I've never tried recording 16 channels using the Alesis though because I haven't need to, but I'll try it soon and let you know what happens.

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Post by bantam » Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:13 pm

how do you like the alesis. how do the converters compare to the mini? digi? rosetta?

thanks

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Post by joel hamilton » Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:54 pm

Red Rockets Glare wrote:I have been mixing with 16 channels using the MiniMe for clocking and the Alesis AI-3 for the extra 8 channels and have had no problems whatsoever on the 002 platform.
I've never tried recording 16 channels using the Alesis though because I haven't need to, but I'll try it soon and let you know what happens.
The AI3 is "dummy proof" because it CANT be the master. It gets its clock from whatever it is hooked up to via lightpipe.

That same scenario is applicable to any of the devices mentioned above, and to test the "BEST" would be to use your ears for sure. Put up a song using lots of tracks: listen to each device as the master.

You can NOT have more than one master.....

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Post by sonicmook56 » Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:56 am

joel hamilton wrote:
The AI3 is "dummy proof" because it CANT be the master. It gets its clock from whatever it is hooked up to via lightpipe.
hua? I sync my 001 to my AI3 everyday..at least I thought I was!

A long time ago I did some listening tests with my 001 synced to my ADAT LX, and I could hear a obvious diffrence. Since I kicked the VHS recorder out I havent done the same tests with the AI3, because I figure it was the same beast, and it never presented a problem.

Ill listen next time I have several tracks up.

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Post by joel hamilton » Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:49 am

sonicmook56 wrote:
joel hamilton wrote:
The AI3 is "dummy proof" because it CANT be the master. It gets its clock from whatever it is hooked up to via lightpipe.
hua? I sync my 001 to my AI3 everyday..at least I thought I was!

A long time ago I did some listening tests with my 001 synced to my ADAT LX, and I could hear a obvious diffrence. Since I kicked the VHS recorder out I havent done the same tests with the AI3, because I figure it was the same beast, and it never presented a problem.

Ill listen next time I have several tracks up.
I am a knucklehead.I must have dreamt up that "fact" about the AI3... (ahh, yes). Here is a way too big excerpt from the AI3 documentation PDF:

Where the previous chapters explained the various connectors and switches on the
AI-3, this chapter describes how to connect it to the components in your studio. Since
the AI-3 doesn’t do much on it’s own, this chapter will help you get the most out of
this interface.
Digital Clock
The most important concept to understand in a studio using several digital
connectors is the digital clock. It’s critical that every unit being connected with a
digital connector like an ADAT Optical cable is running at the same clock speed.
Digital audio signals like the ADAT Optical format are made up of digital sample
words. Each word is a burst of numbers: a 20-bit, 48kHz signal is made up of a word
20 bits long, played 48,000 times every second. If the sending unit and the receiving
unit aren’t in perfect sync then the signal will be distorted. For example, if an ADAT
was running at 48,000 samples per second (48kHz), and your digital mixer was
running at 48,001 samples per second, you would hear a “click??? when the samples
didn’t exactly line up.
The way to fix this is to set every unit in your studio to run from the same master
clock. Whether it’s an ADAT, computer-based editing workstation, digital mixer or
DAT machine, you need to pick one unit in your studio which is the master clock,
and every other digitally-connected unit needs to slave to this master.
How does this affect the AI-3? The easiest way to use an AI-3 in a digital studio is to
make sure that the digital input is always connected. When digital clock is coming
into the AI-3’s digital input, it automatically slaves to this clock source. If you only
connect the digital output of the AI-3 to another product, such as a mixer or recorder,
then the AI-3 has to be the master clock.
The next few pages illustrate a few example setups using the AI-3. Use these
configurations as a guide when setting up the AI-3 in your studio.
Page 18
Chapter 3 – Applications
18
AI-3 Reference Manual
Recording with ADAT/EDIT
The Alesis ADAT/EDIT is a recording system, sold separately, which uses the ADAT
Optical Digital Interface for digital audio input and output. When connected to an
AI-3, this system forms a complete 8 in/8 out hard disk recording workstation.
In the configuration pictured above, the ADAT Output of the AI-3 is connected to the
ADAT Input of the PCR (the PCI card packaged with ADAT/EDIT). The ADAT
Output of the PCR is connected to the ADAT Input of the AI-3. The Analog Outputs
of the AI-3 are connected to the Tape Returns of the analog mixer, and the Analog
Inputs are connected to the Group Outputs of the mixer.
In this setup, when you press Play on the ADAT/EDIT software, the audio will play
through the AI-3 into the mixer. When you plug a microphone into the mixer, you
can route it to the Group Outputs to send it through the AI-3 into the PCR card to be
recorded in ADAT/EDIT.
Recording with ADAT/EDIT and an ADAT
Since the AI-3 has an Optical Source switch, you can connect both an ADAT and an
AI-3 to the ADAT/EDIT system.
In the system pictured above, the ADAT Output of the PCR card is plugged into the
AI-3 ADAT In, the Out of the AI-3 is connected to the In of our ADAT Recorder, and
the Out of our ADAT Recorder is connected to the Input of the PCR card. If you want
to listen to what you’ve recorded, monitor the outputs of the AI-3.
Page 19
Applications – Chapter 3
AI-3 Reference Manual
19
There are three ways to record into the PCR card:

Play the ADAT tape

Press “All Input??? and “Analog In??? on the ADAT and send signal to the ADAT’s
analog inputs

Press “All Input??? and “Optical Input??? on the ADAT and send audio to the AI-3’s
analog inputs. (Make sure that the “Optical Out Source??? is set to “Analog In??? on
the AI-3 when recording in this configuration.)
To record the output of ADAT/EDIT on the ADAT tape, set the AI-3’s “Optical Out
Source??? to Optical In, press the “Digital In??? button on the ADAT, and arm the ADAT
tracks where you want to record. Also, the computer should be the master clock in
this setup, so make sure that the ADAT is not set to “Clock Source: Internal???.
There is another way to connect this system. First, the output of the PCR card is
connected to the ADAT’s Digital In. Next, the Digital Out of the ADAT is connected
to the Digital In of the AI-3, and the Digital Out of the AI-3 is connected to the Digital
In of the computer’s PCR card. In this system, you can record into the computer by
playing audio into the AI-3’s analog inputs, and monitor through the ADAT’s analog
outputs. However, you must press Digital Input and All Input on the ADAT to
monitor the computer. To record the output of the ADAT to the computer, make sure
that the Optical Source switch on the AI-3 is set to Optical In. This setup is not much
different than the system pictured above, you can decide which configuration better
suits your working style.
Adding Analog Inputs to a Digital Mixer
Many digital mixers feature the ADAT Optical digital input; it’s one of the most
popular digital formats available due to its compact size and versatility. The AI-3 can
be very useful for adding analog inputs to a mixer with extra ADAT I/O. This allows
you to connect more synthesizers, effects processors, analog multitrack recorders, or
other products which don’t have digital I/O.
ADAT INPUT
ADAT OUTPUT
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
In the diagram above, the Digital Out of the AI-3 is connected to the ADAT Digital In
of the mixer. The ADAT Digital Out of the mixer is connected to the AI-3. It’s
important to connect both the input and output of the AI-3 to the digital mixer, even
if you aren’t going to be sending audio to the AI-3’s analog outputs. If only the
Digital Out of the AI-3 is connected to the mixer, the AI-3 becomes the clock master
for your entire studio, which may create clock problems. If you must use the ADAT
output of your mixer for another purpose, make sure that the mixer’s “clock source???
or “clock master??? is set to the AI-3’s ADAT input. You should also make sure that all
other digitally-connected devices are set to external clock.
Page 20
Chapter 3 – Applications
20
AI-3 Reference Manual
Using the AI-3 as an Optical Snake
Two AI-3s can be connected to each other to create an optical “snake???. This system
allows eight analog lines to be converted to 20-bit digital signals and routed up to 33
feet (10 meters) away to another AI-3 or ADAT optical device. (See page 12 for more
information about optical cables.) The advantages to this system are:

Eight signals are carried on one thin-profile optical cable

Signals are not subject to interference from transformer noise or radio
frequencies

There is no signal loss as the signal run gets longer

The signals can be converted to analog close to the source (a microphone
preamplifier, for example), then digitally routed to a recorder or mixer
This system can be used in fixed installations, in ADAT recording studios, live sound
reinforcement or anywhere high-quality digital audio signals need to be transferred.
When wiring this system, make sure that the fragile optical cables are protected from
damage.
Note that this communication is one-directional only. One AI-3 will send signal to
another, but if you try sending optical data from the second back to the first, there is
no master clock. Since the AI-3 automatically defaults to slave clock if digital audio is
coming into the unit, both devices will try to slave to each other and no audio will
play back. If you need to send audio back and forth from two units, insert another
device (such as a Q20, ADAT or PCR card) in the loop and set this to Master clock.
Page 21
Troubleshooting – Chapter 4
AI-3 Reference Manual
21
C
HAPTER
4
T
ROUBLESHOOTING
Troubleshooting Index
If you are experience problems while operating the AI-3, please use the following
table to locate possible causes and solutions before contacting Alesis customer
service for assistance.
Symptom
Cause
Solution
The display does not light
when the unit is powered
on.
No power.
Check that the power cable
is plugged in properly.
Sound is distorted, Red
“Clip??? LEDs are lit
Input level is too high.
Turn down the input
source.
No signal going to the
ADAT output
“Optical Source??? switch
in the wrong position
Check the setting of the
“Optical Source??? switch on
the front panel
Low signal level
“Operating Level???
switch in the wrong
position
Check the setting of the
“Operating Level??? switch
on the front panel
Mixing balanced and
unbalanced cables
Choose balanced or
unbalanced cables
throughout your studio
Hum or noise from output.
Ground loop.
Try plugging the unit into
another power jack or
different audio cables.
Unit does not respond to
front panel controls.
Unknown software
conflict, Chupacabra, or
static electricity.
Power down and power up
again.
Maintenance/Service
Cleaning
Disconnect the AC cord, then use a damp cloth to clean the AI-3’s metal and plastic
surfaces. For heavy dirt, use a non-abrasive household cleaner such as Formula 409
or Fantastik. DO NOT SPRAY THE CLEANER DIRECTLY ONTO THE FRONT OF
THE UNIT AS IT MAY DESTROY THE LUBRICANTS USED IN THE SWITCHES
AND CONTROLS! Spray onto a cloth, then use cloth to clean the unit.
Refer All Servicing to Alesis
We believe that the AI-3 is one of the most reliable multieffects processors that can be
made using current technology, and should provide years of trouble-free use.
However, should problems occur, DO NOT attempt to service the unit yourself. High
voltage/high current DC voltages are present at several points within the chassis.
Service on this product should be performed only by qualified technicians. NO
USER-SERVICEABLE PARTS INSIDE.
Obtaining Repair Service at Alesis
Page 22
Chapter 4 – Troubleshooting
22
AI-3 Reference Manual
Before contacting Alesis, check over all your connections, and make sure you’ve read
the manual.
Customers in the USA and Canada: If the problem persists, call Alesis USA at
1-800-5-ALESIS and request the Product Support department. Talk the problem over
with one of our technicians; if necessary, you will be given a return order (RO)
number and instructions on how to return the unit. All units must be shipped
prepaid and COD shipments will not be accepted.
For prompt service, indicate the RO number on the shipping label. If you do not have
the original packing, ship the AI-3 in a sturdy carton, with shock-absorbing materials
such as styrofoam pellets (the kind without CFCs) or “bubble-pack??? surrounding the
unit. Shipping damage caused by inadequate packing is not covered by the Alesis
warranty.
Tape a note to the top of the unit describing the problem, include your name and a
phone number where Alesis can contact you if necessary, as well as instructions on
where you want the product returned. Alesis will pay for standard one-way shipping
back to you on any repair covered under the terms of this warranty. Next day service
is available for a surcharge.
Field repairs are not normally authorized during the warranty period, and repair
attempts by unqualified personnel may invalidate the warranty.
Service address for customers in the USA:
Alesis Product Support
Attention: RO #XXXXXX
12520 Wilkie Ave.
Hawthorne, CA 90250
Customers outside the USA and Canada:
Contact your local Alesis distributor for any warranty assistance. The Alesis Limited
Warranty applies only to products sold to users in the USA and Canada. Customers
outside of the USA and Canada are not covered by this Limited Warranty and may
or may not be covered by an independent distributor warranty in the country of sale.
Do not return products to the factory unless you have been given specific
instructions to do so.
Obtaining Repair Service at an Alesis Service
Center
If your unit needs servicing and is under warranty, and you wish to bring it to a local
Alesis Service Center, you do not need an RO number. Just bring the unit and a copy
of your sales receipt to the service center – Alesis will take care of the rest. Unless you
are sending the unit to Alesis for repair, you do not need an RO number.
Page 23
Specifications
AI-3 Reference Manual
23
S
PECIFICATIONS
Analog Input
Number of Channels:
8
Format:
1/4" balanced
Nominal Level:
-10 dBV or +4dBu, front- panel adjustable
Maximum Level:
+10 dBV
Impedence:
1M?/channel stereo, 500k?/channel mono
Analog Input to Optical Output
A/D converter:
20 bit Sigma-Delta, 128 times oversampling
Frequency Response:
20Hz to 20 kHz, (+0.05dB/-0.10dB balanced,
+0.05/-0.15 unbalanced)
Signal to Noise (A-wtg.):
100dB balanced/unbalanced
Dynamic Range (-60dBfs, 1kHz):
96dB balanced/unbalanced
THD+Noise (-0.5dBfs, 1kHz):
0.0025% balanced, 0.0023% unbalanced
Analog Output
Number of Channels:
8
Format:
1/4" balanced
Maximum Level:
+17.5dBu
Nominal Level
-10 dBV or +4dBu, front- panel adjustable
Output Impedance:
500 ohms
Analog Input to Optical Output
D/A converter:
20 bit Sigma-Delta, 128 times oversampling
Frequency Response:
20Hz to 20 kHz, (±0.1dB balanced/unbalanced)
Signal to Noise (A-wtg.):
98dB balanced/unbalanced
Dynamic Range (-60dBfs, 1kHz):
95dB balanced/unbalanced
THD+Noise (-0.5dBfs, 1kHz):
0.0030% balanced/unbalanced
Front Panel
Buttons
OPTICAL SOURCE
OPERATING LEVEL
Indicators
LED Signal/Peak indicators
Power Indicator
Page 24
Specifications
24
AI-3 Reference Manual
Rear Panel
Analog Inputs (8)
1/4" 3-conductor
Analog Outputs (8)
1/4" 3-conductor
Digital Input
EIAJ fiber optical jack, ADAT Optical digital
format
Digital Output
EIAJ fiber optical jack, ADAT Optical digital
format
Power
IEC jack
General
Power Requirements:
90V-250V AC, 50/60Hz
Power Consumption:
80W
Dimensions (W x H x D):
19??? x 1.75??? x 6??? (483mm x 45mm x 153mm)
Weight:
4.5lbs. (2kg.)

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Post by Red Rockets Glare » Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:06 am

buschfsu wrote:how do you like the alesis. how do the converters compare to the mini? digi? rosetta?

thanks
I can't hear the difference between it and the Digi002 converters. It's so nice to be out of the box, I owe that one to Joel really. And I'm doing some much better mixes now that I can use the outboard gear. The mixes aren't as repeatable, but hey, I only mix things for folks once or twice before I say "I'm done, you take it home and mix it"

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Post by bantam » Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:07 am

im trying to go the same route. get 16 channels out of the digi and go into a allen and heath or something. that seems to be the way that most people that i respect do things.

question now is where the hell do i find a good sounding board with 16+ channels that isn't 2 grand or more.

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Post by Red Rockets Glare » Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:27 pm

buschfsu wrote:im trying to go the same route. get 16 channels out of the digi and go into a allen and heath or something. that seems to be the way that most people that i respect do things.

question now is where the hell do i find a good sounding board with 16+ channels that isn't 2 grand or more.
I got a nice Soundtracs that is on my site for 300 bucks! It is in the same class as a Soundcraft and has really nice EQ's and preamps with 16 direct outs.

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