32 bit files -> 24 bit

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

kikocoolray
gettin' sounds
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:17 pm

32 bit files -> 24 bit

Post by kikocoolray » Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:36 pm

I'm mixing a record for a band in PT... They recorded it in Cool Edit Pro, and have given me raw 32 bit .wav files. What's the best way to convert the files to 24 bit? I've seen the Awave Audio software, but I'm on a mac. . .

I know QT can deal with 32 bit files, but I'm worried about dithering.

Thanks in advance.

earl parameter
buyin' gear
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:36 am

Post by earl parameter » Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:34 am

im not a big mac guy but, 32 is the internal rate, not the i/o rate (24 or 16).

different.

shouldn't be anything to worry about. except converting to .aiff right? while opening it in whatever you find to convert it to aiff, check the file properties and find out if its 24bit or 16bit. then if you need to get it to 24 from 16 your still fine and dithering might be a good thing. do it with and without and see what you like best.

btw there is no such thing as a 32bit I/O. well not yet anyway.

chris harris
speech impediment
Posts: 4270
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:31 pm
Location: Norman, OK
Contact:

Post by chris harris » Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:58 am

but, there IS such a thing as a 32bit .wav file, which some apps don't support.

earl parameter
buyin' gear
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:36 am

Post by earl parameter » Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:43 am

32 bit is the internal file structure used for reading and storing the file and other internal operations. xp is a 32 bit OS. the 64bit version was just released.

this has absolutely nothing to do with the analog to digital conversion process.


"but, there IS such a thing as a 32bit .wav file, which some apps don't support."

which is why i pointed toward a file format convertion app, not a rate convertion app

kikocoolray
gettin' sounds
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:17 pm

Post by kikocoolray » Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:58 am

hmm. i no nothing about cool edit pro, but it seems to allow you to record audio as a "32 bit float" file"--- which is what the band did.

Are the files really just 24 bit audio files? If so, I should be able to convert w/o dithering, right?

chris harris
speech impediment
Posts: 4270
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:31 pm
Location: Norman, OK
Contact:

Post by chris harris » Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:51 am

crashsick wrote:32 bit is the internal file structure used for reading and storing the file and other internal operations. xp is a 32 bit OS. the 64bit version was just released.

this has absolutely nothing to do with the analog to digital conversion process.


"but, there IS such a thing as a 32bit .wav file, which some apps don't support."

which is why i pointed toward a file format convertion app, not a rate convertion app
aside from your desire to educate everyone on the obvious and well-known fact that there are no 32 bit converters in existence, what the hell does "internal file structure" and i/o have to do with this situation?

he's dealing with files saved as "32bit .wav" files.
while opening it in whatever you find to convert it to aiff, check the file properties and find out if its 24bit or 16bit.
the file properties should indicate that it's a 32bit .wav file. I don't know any app that will tell you in "file properties" what resolution the file was converted at. The app will list the resolution that the file was SAVED at, in this case, 32bit.

earl parameter
buyin' gear
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:36 am

Post by earl parameter » Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:47 am

"what the hell does internal file structure" and i/o have to do with this situation? "

actually this is the only situation


he asked if he had to convert a file from 32bit to 24bit. but this doesn't make any sense at all, since the 2 numbers have nothing to do with each other. 32 represents one thing and 24 another. they?re just numbers.

32bit is the rate and size at which a file is stored and processed inside of the computer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/32bit


and 24bit is the rate and size at which actual audio is converted from analog to digital and back to analog. this is the resolution at which the capture and reproduction happen. sort of like the numbers of photos take in a second, the more you have the better the motion looks (sounds). it has nothing at all to do with how this file is going to be arranged on a hard drive for instance. which has a 32 bit file structure. a formatted hard drive is just a big grid and its holes are 32 bits in size, depending on how it is formatted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_to_ ... conversion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WAV


its sort of like asking if he has to turn an apple blue in order to cut it into 10 pieces.

and it was not obvious to him as he is the one how asked the question. so i thought i would let him know he was looking at the problem incorrectly.

a bit is just a number used in computers, and just because they both have the word "bit" attached to them does not mean that they are the same in any way, shape, or form other then that they are numbers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit


"the file properties should indicate that it's a 32bit .wav file. I don't know any app that will tell you in "file properties" what resolution the file was converted at. The app will list the resolution that the file was SAVED at, in this case, 32bit."

this is simply not true. if you are running xp for instance and you right click on a .wav file and click properties, then click the summary tab at the top of the window, then click advanced. it will show you the bit rate (kbps), audio sample size (16 - 24bit), channels (stereo-mono), audio sample rate (khz), and the audio format (pcm or something). almost every single audio program i have ever used has this option, even windows media. in sound forge you just right click on the wave image and you get the same thing

all the macs i have on hand are older then crap and haven't been used in years, so im not sure how i would it is done on one, but i know its there. maybe click file info or properties or something inside of an audio programs drop down menu.

he simply needs to find a program that will convert the file from .wav to .aiff and thats it.

something like wavelab will work.
http://www.steinberg.de/displaydoc_sb40 ... vision_id=

but im sure there is something that is freeware that will do it too, maybe check here http://www.macmusic.org/softs/?lang=EN

after this then he can figure out if its 16 or 24bit and then decide if he needs to convert from 16 to 24 or 24 to 16.

time for me to get some sleep,

steve

kikocoolray
gettin' sounds
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:17 pm

Post by kikocoolray » Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:04 am

he simply needs to find a program that will convert the file from .wav to .aiff and thats it.
Actually that's not the problem at all. Pro tools will work with .wav files just fine.

My problem is I'm thoroughly confused by Cool Edit Pro's "32 bit" audio files. The guy that recorded it says he has an option to record at 16 bits or 32 bits in CEP, no 24 bit option.

Any Cool Edit users here?

Thanks again...

earl parameter
buyin' gear
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:36 am

Post by earl parameter » Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:20 am

i used it years and years ago it when it was just cool edit and it was shareware. and followed it up to the first pro version. shit im dating myself. if you only had the option of 16 and 32 then it is just and old version that was only capable of 16 bit audio. and the 32 once again is the internal depth. so its a 16 bit file and if PT is reading it and it sounds good then your fine as it is. unless you want to convert to 24 bit. if thats the case and you are still wondering whether or not to dither while upsampling then try a track with and without and see if one sounds better then the other to you. if you have several dithering options, try them too and see what you like (maybe just do short sections by cutting it if it takes a long time). but if its only a couple of tracks that you will be adding a lot to, then most of the difference made with dithering will not matter when it come time to mix. unless there are really quite passages or fades with the track(s) in question.

earl parameter
buyin' gear
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:36 am

Post by earl parameter » Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:44 pm

a thought just popped into my head as i was trying to fall asleep. by your friend saying that he only had the option of 16 and 32bit in that same small tab ( i assume thats what he meant). that means that that version of cool edit came out around the time of the xp launch. so it was compatible with both 98 and xp. 98 had a 16bit file structure and xp the 32bit (xp is backwards compatible, 16 fits into 32). also that he is using xp now because he was given the option of the two. so he saved it as 32bit for storage under xp, but we still don't know what the actual audio bit rate is. that is if this is actually true. so i would guess 16, but you should try and find that file info option in protools or something to make sure. if you can't then try to convert it to 24 and see what it says. it might say it is already 24 then you will know for sure.

back to sleep

chris harris
speech impediment
Posts: 4270
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:31 pm
Location: Norman, OK
Contact:

Post by chris harris » Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:49 pm

the file is a 32 bit .wav file. you're confusing the hell out of this guy.
I just launched my windows xp machine to verify it. I checked the summary tab in the properties for a 32 bit .wav file that I had previously created with Cubase. Sure enough, Windows says, "Audio sample size: 32 bit."

I understand the difference between the internal resolution of a particular app on a particular os, and the bit depth of a/d and d/a conversion. What you don't seem to understand is that there IS SUCH THING AS A 32 bit .wav file. It might not be in Wikipedia yet. But, I know that Cubase, Nuendo, and Cool Edit Pro offer this option. I know that DP and PT do not. I'm not sure about other apps.

I realize that since there are no 32 bit converters available, there will be no more than 24 bits of actual information contained in a 32 bit .wav file. It's my understanding that Cubase and Nuendo offer this option to account for post conversion, pre-harddrive plug-in processing. I don't track with plug-ins, so I usually just leave it at 24 bit. But, if you select 32 bit, and record something, it does indeed record it as a 32bit .wav file. A file that will open in Cubase, Nuendo, Wavelab, or Cool Edit, but not in PT or DP.

Why would this person's version of Cool Edit give the option to select between different internal resolutions? The option that the client is seeing on Cool Edit is the bit resolution at which to save .wav files. I have no idea why it doesn't offer a 24 bit option.

chris harris
speech impediment
Posts: 4270
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:31 pm
Location: Norman, OK
Contact:

Post by chris harris » Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:04 pm

kikocoolray wrote:
he simply needs to find a program that will convert the file from .wav to .aiff and thats it.
Actually that's not the problem at all. Pro tools will work with .wav files just fine.

My problem is I'm thoroughly confused by Cool Edit Pro's "32 bit" audio files. The guy that recorded it says he has an option to record at 16 bits or 32 bits in CEP, no 24 bit option.

Any Cool Edit users here?

Thanks again...
Cubase and Nuendo are the only programs that I know for mac that support 32 bit .wav files. There are probably more.
The easiest route for you would be to find someone with Wavelab on a PC that could convert all of the 32bit files to 24 bit for you. Wavelab could do it as a "batch process" and knock 'em all out pretty quick.

Good luck.

kikocoolray
gettin' sounds
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:17 pm

Post by kikocoolray » Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:22 pm

Cubase and Nuendo are the only programs that I know for mac that support 32 bit .wav files. There are probably more.
The easiest route for you would be to find someone with Wavelab on a PC that could convert all of the 32bit files to 24 bit for you. Wavelab could do it as a "batch process" and knock 'em all out pretty quick
Thanks-- this is actually the info I was after in the first place...

I seem to recall reading that Quicktime could convert from 32 bit to 24 bit audio. Aside from the fact that this wouldn't be the speediest option, I'm concerned about downsampling without dithering.

What a pain in the ass.

sleep over jack
ass engineer
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:25 am

Post by sleep over jack » Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:16 am

subatomic pieces wrote:the file is a 32 bit .wav file. you're confusing the hell out of this guy.
I just launched my windows xp machine to verify it. I checked the summary tab in the properties for a 32 bit .wav file that I had previously created with Cubase. Sure enough, Windows says, "Audio sample size: 32 bit."

I realize that since there are no 32 bit converters available, there will be no more than 24 bits of actual information contained in a 32 bit .wav file. It's my understanding that Cubase and Nuendo offer this option to account for post conversion, pre-harddrive plug-in processing. I don't track with plug-ins, so I usually just leave it at 24 bit. But, if you select 32 bit, and record something, it does indeed record it as a 32bit .wav file. A file that will open in Cubase, Nuendo, Wavelab, or Cool Edit, but not in PT or DP.
yes. i would imagine he should be able to convert without dithering, as there really is no information in the extra 8 bits, as the AD conversion hapened at 24 bits or less.

chris harris
speech impediment
Posts: 4270
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:31 pm
Location: Norman, OK
Contact:

Post by chris harris » Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:42 am

sleep over jack wrote:
subatomic pieces wrote:the file is a 32 bit .wav file. you're confusing the hell out of this guy.
I just launched my windows xp machine to verify it. I checked the summary tab in the properties for a 32 bit .wav file that I had previously created with Cubase. Sure enough, Windows says, "Audio sample size: 32 bit."

I realize that since there are no 32 bit converters available, there will be no more than 24 bits of actual information contained in a 32 bit .wav file. It's my understanding that Cubase and Nuendo offer this option to account for post conversion, pre-harddrive plug-in processing. I don't track with plug-ins, so I usually just leave it at 24 bit. But, if you select 32 bit, and record something, it does indeed record it as a 32bit .wav file. A file that will open in Cubase, Nuendo, Wavelab, or Cool Edit, but not in PT or DP.
yes. i would imagine he should be able to convert without dithering, as there really is no information in the extra 8 bits, as the AD conversion hapened at 24 bits or less.
but, the question is, does the conversion from 32bit to 24bit simply chop off those 8 empty bits? or is it more of a downsampling process where dither would be appropriate.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 48 guests