The Project Studio

[musikman316]

A friend of mine who plays in a band wants to set up a studio at home to record his band. He told me his budget which is pretty good for a project studio and asked me what to spend the money on. I advised him to buy just a few channels of solid gear rather than trying to make his money strecth into 16 channels of pres and conversion telling him instead to go to a local studio (mine or any other) to track drums and then spend his time at home doing overdubs and then he has the option to either mix at home or take it to a studio to mix.

What do you guys think about this set up, good or bad. I got the feeling that he thought I was just saying this so I could get some work out of him, but my intentions were really to help him get the most out of his money. I mean, 8-12 options of preamps and 6-8 different compressors with a nice mic cabinet for overdubbing is going to, in my opinion, give you a much better sound for the money over a cheap 24 channel console and a Digi002? Am I wrong here?

Thanks,
Josh

[joelpatterson]

You gave him the rational, best-of-all-worlds option... but if there's something that they "can't do" like track drums, then what good is the project studio?

They might need a complete sandbox for starters, and then hopefully if they're honest about what the gear is or isn't able to do, they'll pick themselves what they can't do--I would think mix is the biggest of all obvious choices. Good mics, good pres, a simple monitoring set-up--those might be the most valuable to them in the long term and what they need to get going.

Tell them if they were tracking onto the IDE drive of an Alesis HD-24, they can do what they can, go into a studio and do what they can't, mix, match, overdub to their heart's content. And I wrong about that?

[drumsound]

I agree with you thinking. Most likely he won't take your advice. The Stankwater and Musicians Fiend catalogs along with EQ and Home Recording mags have convinced him that if he has Pro Tools, an LDC, SM75 and a pair od HR824s that he can make 'major-label quality' records.

When he's in a jam and his record sounds like it was done in a basement by a guy who doesn' understand his gear, be sure to charge him full sheet price for your 'help.'

[GrimmBrotherScott]

Hey guys, quit being so bitter. With enough skill, someone can easily make a very good album in the basement with a Mackie and an 002r. I think that's been established.

I think your advice was really sound Josh. If they are determined to record it all at their practice space, offer to go over, set up the drum mics, gear, etc for a set price. It's a good vibes thing to do, you make a few bucks and they will come to you to help them finish it up. Just make sure to tell them that you are in no way responsible for what they end up doing, but you have given them a decent headstart.

[musikman316]

Thanks guys, also I forgot to mention that I advised him to pick up 8 channels of conversion instead of the sixteen (instead of just a stereo pair), this way, if they are just writing a song they can track everything in the space to help them arrange and find problem spots, then when they want to track a record to do the drums in a larger space as their space is pretty small for drums (8x10 foot).

Anyone else, if this were you, would you set up differently?

Thanks,
Josh

[surf's up]

I think it depends on what exactly is meant by project studio (i.e. what his purpose/goals are) and what the budget is. If it truly is designed for a single, one-time project, itd probably be best to get a few good pieces to track the instruments/vocals with and leave the drums for outsourcing. but if he wants to be able to use it for several albums, do demo stuff, maybe record some friends' projects, eventually hobby==>profession, then the capability to do drums might be nice.

I agree that having 16 channels of behringer or cheap yamaha probably isnt the best way to record drums, but a project studio can easily get by with 8 tracks on drums. He could buy two syteks and then mix in the box. Or maybe a sytek and a 2 channel (insert something slightly pricer but pretty good here - Langevin Am16s, API 312, 1272, etc.). To me, the biggest limiting factor keeping a project type studio from getting good drum takes is the recording space and the ambience it provides. Particularly if it is home-based. Maybe this is another thing you have factored into your recommendation to him. Even if he chooses to outsource drums, it would still be important to get a good sounding room and eliminate peaks and nulls and muddiness, so help him out with that if possible.

Hes probably going to be cautious towards whatever advice you give, simply because of the personal bias you may have. If he doesnt heed your advice, just try to help him out and be supportive anyway. Then if he does realize he messed up, hell welcome your help, and if youre a nice guy, youll still be willing to give it to him.

[trashy]

Well, I've tracked drums with four channels for a long time, but eight channels is the way to go. Then he can track drums and guitars at the same time. It really solves some major problems. That's good advice you are giving your friend - I think you are on the right track...

[musikman316]

The biggest reason I advised him against tracking drums for his record is that the room he is in is, like i mentioned above, 8x10 foot and it has roughly 7 foot ceilings. Not at all ideal for getting a good drum sound, especially for the alt country style he does. Thanks for the help guys, I may point him over to this thread to see what other folks have to say about the matter.

Thanks,
Josh

[curtiswyant]

I say if he's only got an 8x10 room, he would be better off doing everything at a studio. I know it has taken me a long time to get decent recordings and I'm still not even half-way there. Does your friend have any interest/experience in recording? What if this band breaks up, is he going to be stuck with a bunch of unused gear?

[musikman316]

Yes, I believe that he will continue to record even if the band broke up. He is mainly a singer/songwriter and the band is really just his live band, so he'll continue to record with them or otherwise, and I know he has an interest in recording. He started with a cassette 4 track to record song ideas/arrangements and just wants to be able to do his own records instead of spending weeks on end in a studio.

Thanks,
Josh

[MikeCzech]

What kind of budget is he looking at?

[Reuben]

The possibility of getting great results in that room with whatever gear depends entirely on the quality of the players and their instruments, the type of music they play, his skills (and patience) as an engineer, and willingness to hear what is really there and what is not.

I think when questions like these come up it's way too easy to assume that we know what the room will sound like and what the music sounds like. But we really don't know. It seems to me that in limited spaces like this there's always a way to make a good sound. The downside is usually that it may not be the sound you want, and your choices will be very limited in such a space. I see no reason to discourage the guy, and my advice would be to buy as little gear as he can get away with to get started until he establishes what's feasible by trial and error.

That's what I did with my space, and as the results became encouraging I bought more, and more sophisticated gear.

[mjau]

The biggest reason I advised him against tracking drums for his record is that the room he is in is, like i mentioned above, 8x10 foot and it has roughly 7 foot ceilings. Not at all ideal for getting a good drum sound, especially for the alt country style he does.

Is it possible to track drums outside?

[joelpatterson]

Is it possible to track drums outside?

You'll probably have better luck tracking deer or rabbits. Drum footprints can be hard to identify.

[curtiswyant]

I say get a decent board, maybe a Sytek, a few nice mics, a 1/2" 8 track or 8-16 input soundcard and start playing around. I don't think he needs to be spending big $$$ because the room will always be a problem.