Heating a large space

[Marc Alan Goodman]

I've already asked a number of people's opinions on this, but I figure the tape-op board never hurts....

I just moved into a new space in Philadelphia and it's HUGE. 18' Ceilings, and it must be 50' by 30'. It's been run as a studio for about a dozen years by the guys who are now my partners. The only downside is: no heat.

In the past they've practically shut down during the winter months, but that's not really an option for me. Right now my band has been using the space to practice, but it's even getting too cold for that. It's tough to play with frozen hands.

Does anybody have any suggestions for cost-effectively heating a space like that. Blocking off part of the room isn't really an option right now (though I'm trying to make that happen), and neither is installing anything too permenant. To top it all off it's a wood building so we can't have anything with an open flame. We don't need to heat it ALL the time, just the few days nights that we're in there. However I think it would be impossible to heat the whole room from freezing every time we need to use it.

Any advice at all would be GREATLY appreciated.
-marc

[;ivlunsdystf]

No open flame means no woodstove? The building being made of wood should not preclude the use of a woodstove. It just has to be properly installed. A cast iron stove should run you (new) about 150-200. A much nicer, sealed stove can be much more. Installation is key. There are necessary distances to be kept from combustibles, and there are specific materials to get your exhaust out through an outside wall or through the roof of the sucka.

It will wreak havoc on delicate wooden instruments over time (by creating a very dry environment) but it will heat the place up pretty quickly I bet.

[;ivlunsdystf]

Oh - another idea: Here in frosty Minnesota I have heard of the practice of heating a sauna with a modified electric water heater. This would be the cylindrical type of water heater. Basically you cut the top off (with a sawzall) and then fill it with rocks (for sauna-related reasons).

I am pretty sure this would void the warranty. This is not a device that I would leave running unattended. It seems that a necessary ingredient, at least in the early "experimental" stages, would be a good extinguisher kept within reach.

I am providing you with this information for "novelty purposes" only. Please do not take this as advice.

[Marc Alan Goodman]

I am providing you with this information for "novelty purposes" only. Please do not take this as advice.

I love that.

Wood stove isn't a bad idea at all, and it's definitely one I haven't considered yet. Any more out there? I'm thinking of trying those electric oil-filler radiators, but I'm not sure how good of a job they're gonna do in (plus, I've heard they head up really slow)

-marc

[lsn110]

Look at pellet stoves....They're easier to tend to than woodstoves and they burn cleaner. You can fill the hopper with pellets (which looks like rabbit food) and let it go for a good long time. These are considerably easier to install than regular wood stoves because you don't need to have a chimney that goes to the roof. Mine exhausts out of the side of my house.

Or...you could just get a LOT of tube gear and leave it on.

In an early control room incarnation, I had to block off the heating vent and open the window in the winter due to gear heat. Not a cheap solution...but satisfying for lust of gear.

Whatever you do, talk to someone who actually can calculate what you'll need for heating it to whatever temp is tolerable. It would suck to buy into a system only to find out it's not enough.

Yeah, and if you can make the room temporarily smaller...it'll help a lot.

[versuviusx]

have you thought about making walls that can move and putting insulation in the walls. they have insulation that is specifically designed to trap heat.

[;ivlunsdystf]

Electric water-filled radiators are slow to heat up, quiet, and cheap to buy, but they draw a huge amount of current. For a space that big you would need several; to have them all running at once would likely cause problems for your circuit breakers (especially with several Moogs, Theremins, electronic drum sets, MBoxes, Euroracks, Electribes, Peavey practice amps, and other musical appliances all running simulaneously)

Maybe you could build an igloo in there. Snow is such a wonderful insulator, or so I was told in 8th grade social studies class.

I have a 16' x 12' space with 7' ceilings that is totally separate from the house. Last winter I invested in two panels from "econo-heat.com" and those keep me toasty all winter long. On the coldest winter nights I add a water-filled electric radiator to the picture for a quicker ascent to bearable temps. The panels are very easy to install and they don't seem to pose any fire hazard because they never get too hot to touch. On the website they claim that each panel draws about as much as an average desktop computer. I run them twenty or so hours every week and we hardly see a dent in our electric bill. Unfortunately for you, I think you would need at least eight for your large recording space. Also, they take forever to heat up. I plan ahead and set a heavy-duty timer for a few hours before I want it to be warm, because they take two or three hours to get things warmed up. Check out the website.

I dream of replacing the panels with a woodstove someday for aesthetic and cost reasons; however, there is a whole new element of danger with a woodstove. There is also the dry air issue which is bad enough in these Minnesota winters. Anyway, the space needed for a woodstove would just about eliminate 1/3 of the usable space available in there.

[weatherbox]

Portable electric water radiators are awful in my experience. My band used to practice in a derelict shed that was brutally cold in winter. We had an electric heater, which we'd practically stick our hands into to warm them up to sufficient playing temperature. We came up with a funny solution. The place was really poorly lit as well, and I figured might as well kill two birds with one stone... I pay my rent as a photographer and brought in some of my studio hotlights (the ones that run all the time, as opposed to strobes.) 500w of blinding bright heat - I had one burst when a bug landed on it and fused to the bulb! They put off a lot of light and a lot of heat, certainly more than did our radiator. Probably consume a fair amount of current, but we never had any problems (and let me assure you, "derelict" applied to the wiring in there as well.) There are commerical versions of these lamps available on the cheap quite easily; if you need to brighten the place up give a look.
Your room sounds like a dream to record in but a nightmare to heat with those high ceilings. Ours was a tiny shed, so heat built up. In your case I'd go with a couple small units that'll provide local heat for people who've got to be in there. The idea of constructing a loft of modular walls filled with rigid fiberglass (can double as large gobos and bass absorbant panels for recrording!) that can trap heat is a slightly crazy but perhaps effective idea. A room that big, minus central heat... crazy might be the best option.

[pulse_divider]

Fill it up with tube gear!

[;ivlunsdystf]

have you thought about making walls that can move and putting insulation in the walls. they have insulation that is specifically designed to trap heat.

Isn't that one of the big three purposes of insulation? (Other two being to "trap" cold, and to block noise)

[goldstar]

weatherbox might have the best solution, I think. 500w halogen worklights from the hardware store throw off lots of heat close to them, and don't make noise, though the delicate candlelit ambiance will get blasted to hell. They don't cost much, either.

Hell, a couple of Par 64 cans per player from the next GC sale would would work, too, and you could get that concert stage feel.

Seriously, though, maybe or two on a tall stand pointing down on each player would work, though do be careful, because they're really hot to the touch.

Frank

[;ivlunsdystf]

The beauty of a "heater" (whatever kind it might be) is that it is not wasting any energy on lighting the place up. This leaves more energy for heat output. For that reason I disagree with the use of bright lights as a way to warm the place. Call me crazy if you like.

[kayagum]

Clearly we're a bunch of electronics geeks, not workshop dudes

Get a garage / workshop heater. Google on "indoor garage heater"

[sonicmook56]

I lived in a big place like that in Brooklyn. There was a huge gas fan forced heater in there that would make it 90 in under 5 minutes.

[Marc Alan Goodman]

Thanks for the advice everyone!

I think it's going to be a situation for getting a bunch of localized space heaters and then taking lots of coffee breaks in the control room (where it's very comfortable, I assure you). My band is thinking of moving our practice setup to the loft on top of the control room so we'll be closer to the celiving (less heat escaping straight up). Plus, it will keep us in closs quarters which should make the space heaters work better anyway.

-marc