COMPRESSING OVERHEADS....

Recycled_Brains · Post by **Recycled_Brains** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:55 pm

i'm sure some of you have tried this out.... just wanted to see if you had any tips. i'm working with the Bombfactory 1176 plug in on pro-tools.

i'm basically looking to make the overheads sound very textural and warm (if that makes any sense), as opposed to being really on top of the kit.

i've been messing with it and i'm having a pumping effect whenever the snare is hit. i'm going to continue playing with ratios and attack and release times to find something that works.

i've eq'd a bit as well. basically rolled off a lot of the low end to get rid of as much bleed as possible, and i took out some mids to make them 'less harsh'.

any other ideas?

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:27 pm

I always just time the release so that the thwack of the snare and toms comes through, but with a slow attack as well, to get the cymbals to "slow down."

I hardly ever EQ the OH at all.

Depends greatly on the style of music and all the other myriad of variables inherent.... BUT: I still hardly ever EQ the OH.

Professor · Post by **Professor** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:31 pm

Make sure that you're compressors are linked or that your overheads are on a stereo channel so that when one side fires, they both do, otherwise your image will wander left to right as one side is pushed louder or softer than the other.
As for the tones you're seeking, it reducing lows to achieve 'warmth' is a little counterintuitive, but I'm not sure what your source sounds like. I would try pulling the threshold down very low and using lower ratios (which is not possible on an 1176 plug) like a -30 threshold and 1.5:1 ratio which will allow you to push the overall level up 10dB and will pretty much ensure that the compressor is almost always on - which means no pumping from the snare.

-Jeremy

Recycled_Brains · Post by **Recycled_Brains** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:37 pm

joel hamilton wrote:I always just time the release so that the thwack of the snare and toms comes through, but with a slow attack as well, to get the cymbals to "slow down."

I hardly ever EQ the OH at all.

Depends greatly on the style of music and all the other myriad of variables inherent.... BUT: I still hardly ever EQ the OH.

the reason i'm eq-ing is to get rid of some bleed from the guitars and the bass. we put the amps in separate rooms from the drums, but the low-end still bled through a bit, so i'm not doing anything too crazy, just cutting everything below 150 Hz or so. i backed off the mid just a touch to make them a little less trashy sounding.

Recycled_Brains · Post by **Recycled_Brains** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:39 pm

Professor wrote:Make sure that you're compressors are linked or that your overheads are on a stereo channel so that when one side fires, they both do, otherwise your image will wander left to right as one side is pushed louder or softer than the other.
As for the tones you're seeking, it reducing lows to achieve 'warmth' is a little counterintuitive, but I'm not sure what your source sounds like. I would try pulling the threshold down very low and using lower ratios (which is not possible on an 1176 plug) like a -30 threshold and 1.5:1 ratio which will allow you to push the overall level up 10dB and will pretty much ensure that the compressor is almost always on - which means no pumping from the snare.

-Jeremy

i sent them to a stereo aux and put the compressor on that. i'm going to see if i can do that other shit you mentioned with any of the other compression plug-ins i have. i'm interested.

eeldip · Post by **eeldip** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:45 pm

since i record in marginal, non studio spaces 100% of the time, i find that EQing the overhead really helps polish up the tracks. but yea, use your best EQ and don't overdo it.

is the guitar and bass bleed really that bad?

a recording i am working on now has super guitar and bass bleed. so i left the OHs alone except to compensate for the somewhat silly sounding rehearsal space with a dab of eq.

then i bussed all the close in drum mics together and put all my color in on that track.

anyway, you might want to try that...

Recycled_Brains · Post by **Recycled_Brains** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:59 pm

eeldip wrote:
is the guitar and bass bleed really that bad?

no, the bleed isn't that bad. i'm trying those other dude's suggestions and it's sounding much better than i had it before. i switched to the regular digi compressor, which is working out well. i took the eq off and it sounds much better.

mfdu · Post by **mfdu** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:48 pm

my attitude with overheads is to try to embrace the bleed as ambience, rather than disguise and eq it out.
compression of course brings up the noisefloor and thus the ambience.

therefore, phase is an issue (direct vs. ambient) but the results are worth it - also may save your processor by providing a real ambience instead of needing to load up a reverb plug.

depending on the style, i personally like to compress the overhead pre-hdd. hardware compression and eq just has a different feel. . . i use an 1176 clone or what? opto compressor clone on overheads.
i'll even use a modded 3630 for something dirty, if the music needs lots of flashing lights to make it settle in. . .

if the music asks for it!!!!!

chris.

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:04 pm

I also use a sum/difference setup for centering the snare a bit and getting more oomph out of the toms. That gives me a way to null the anti-phase information in the OH as well, and totally force a center image into that part of the kit from above. With just a sum/difference setup on the OH and a kick mic, you could do a very good sounding drum mix.

Professor · Post by **Professor** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:12 pm

If the bleed is that bad with guitars and bass leaking into the drum overheads (and if there isn't too much bleed of drums into guitar and bass) then you might consider delaying the guitar and bass tracks enough that the attacks line up with the bleed in the overheads (roughly 1ms per foot from amp to drum OH). That could help make the bleed seem a bit less like a smear and too much reverb and a bit more like a fuller sound. It might not, but it's worth trying.

As for the compressors, if you have the standard pack of plugs that Digi includes, you should have a Focusrite compressor in there too which has adjustable threshold and ratio in the ranges I mentioned.

-Jeremy

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:13 pm

joel hamilton wrote:I also use a sum/difference setup for centering the snare a bit and getting more oomph out of the toms. That gives me a way to null the anti-phase information in the OH as well, and totally force a center image into that part of the kit from above. With just a sum/difference setup on the OH and a kick mic, you could do a very good sounding drum mix.

could you explain that a little more?

sum/difference setup = ?

nick_a · Post by **nick_a** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:16 pm

joel -
please explain what a 'sum/difference' set up is. because i know you and i'm sure it's awesome.

also, sometimes i like to compress overheads with an LA-2 style compressor.

8th_note · Post by **8th_note** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:21 pm

I also use a sum/difference setup for centering the snare a bit and getting more oomph out of the toms. That gives me a way to null the anti-phase information in the OH as well, and totally force a center image into that part of the kit from above. With just a sum/difference setup on the OH and a kick mic, you could do a very good sounding drum mix.

Joel, could you elaborate on the "sum/difference setup"? I'm not sure what that is.

I line up the timing of the overhead and tom tracks so everything matches the snare which gives a much tighter focus. Does this accomplish the same thing as the technique you are using?

Recycled_Brains · Post by **Recycled_Brains** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:40 pm

Professor wrote:
As for the compressors, if you have the standard pack of plugs that Digi includes, you should have a Focusrite compressor in there too which has adjustable threshold and ratio in the ranges I mentioned.

-Jeremy

the regular ol' digi compressor has the ability to do it. i set it to 1.50:1 like you suggested, the threshold to -35 and the gain to +10. and also am working with joel's suggestions and i'm liking what i hear. i'll be plugging away for a while til i find what works best for the mix. i don't have any kind of deadline for the project, so i'll be spending a lot of time on it.

thanks guys for the input. it's really helpful.

Recycled_Brains · Post by **Recycled_Brains** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:41 pm

8th_note wrote:

I line up the timing of the overhead and tom tracks so everything matches the snare which gives a much tighter focus. Does this accomplish the same thing as the technique you are using?
that sounds like an awesome idea as well.

Message Board

COMPRESSING OVERHEADS....

COMPRESSING OVERHEADS....

Who is online