genre and observation

[lanterns]

I kind of got into 50 cent a year ago at the same time when I first got really into Suicide, the post punk band. The cold delivery and cheap drone-y samples really meshed well.
I find that genres sometimes have heart, but are more about posturing than really saying anything.
There are definite similarities that keep me coming back to hip-hop, to just check out what they're saying. Country, on the other hand, seems a lost cause.

[hammertime]

I find that even musicians I like are part bullshit. The shit/music ratio changes sometimes but there's always hype, posturing, and something aside from music and expression, or chances are you wouldn't hear it. For instance, I find a band like Kiss is about 99 percent bullshit, but they're kind of fun on a really shallow level, and besides they don't pretend to be anything but bullshit (breathing fire, vomiting blood, playing some background overcompressed power chord shit). Some musicians pretend to be "real" and no matter what genre, this usually means they're full of shit in a pretty big way. Some of these genre's require "authenticity" as a prerequisite. In country, you had the "outlaw" gimmick. So Waylon Jennings, who grew up in a godfearing family and played bass with Buddy Holly, became an outlaw, as did Willie Nelson. But they wrote some okay songs, and were kind of fun. Even "real musicians," like Tom Waits need some wavy haircut and independent image to get their message across to the kids. Gangster rap is kind of funny at first -- I'd probably put in the category of Kiss, 99% shit, but entertaining. Come to think of it, everyone's putting on some kind of act

[;ivlunsdystf]

Yo Hammer Don't Hurt Me-

I say that artifice, which you repeatedly characterize as "shit", is what makes us human. Without our imaginations and the imaginings and projections of others, we would resemble a bunch of reptiles. That's why, if you think about it (and it appears you did), every musician and probably every artist seems to you to be full of shit to some degree. What musician is totally genuine? I think the only genuine music containing zero artifice and zero bullshit is a crying newborn. Everything we create after that first moment in our lives reflects our humanity, a major part of which is our tendency to wander regularly into imaginary realms like Kiss concerts, Lightnin' Hopkins records, Cirque de Soleil, home recording projects, and whatever else we come up with to pass the time for ourselves and others. The context of the made-up stuff (the "image" of the artist and other particulars) is an important part of the final creative product. That's why it's fun to daydream about a skinny disorganized drunk guy while you listen to old recordings by Hank I. At least if you're me.

Suicide is bitchen. They only had one sound, at least that I ever heard. I have a 2cd set which has 1cd of studio stuff and 1 of live stuff. What is the difference? I admire their ability to work within a very narrow set of constraints. I imagine that they looked like Boris and Natasha from the cartoons.

[hammertime]

True. There's a difference between creative artifice, or semblance, and bullshit, though. And just because it's shit doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. I'm not 'castigating' anyone for liking shit.

Yo Hammer Don't Hurt Me-

I say that artifice, which you repeatedly characterize as "shit", is what makes us human. Without our imaginations and the imaginings and projections of others, we would resemble a bunch of reptiles. That's why, if you think about it (and it appears you did), every musician and probably every artist seems to you to be full of shit to some degree. What musician is totally genuine? I think the only genuine music containing zero artifice and zero bullshit is a crying newborn. Everything we create after that first moment in our lives reflects our humanity, a major part of which is our tendency to wander regularly into imaginary realms like Kiss concerts, Lightnin' Hopkins records, Cirque de Soleil, home recording projects, and whatever else we come up with to pass the time for ourselves and others. The context of the made-up stuff (the "image" of the artist and other particulars) is an important part of the final creative product. That's why it's fun to daydream about a skinny disorganized drunk guy while you listen to old recordings by Hank I. At least if you're me.

Suicide is bitchen. They only had one sound, at least that I ever heard. I have a 2cd set which has 1cd of studio stuff and 1 of live stuff. What is the difference? I admire their ability to work within a very narrow set of constraints. I imagine that they looked like Boris and Natasha from the cartoons.

[;ivlunsdystf]

I think it's all just creative artifice and the quality of it, good or bad, is decided by the listener. No castigation either way. Just my thoughts.

[hammertime]

Maybe, but I'd make a distinction between the artifice in, say, Da Vinci's Mona Lisa, and the trickery in, say, a Neil Young concert (the carefully ripped jeans and neatly unkempt hair, the pretension that he and his band are spontaneous, happy-go lucky troubadors, rather than deliberate, calculating, driven people). I'd say the first is creative semblance and the latter is "bullshit" (with some entertainment value). Moreover, I think this might be a key to a distinction between a traditional view of higher art (where the artist lets the work stand in itself and the artist's personal beliefs, bloodspitting, pony-tails, ripped jeans, become irrelevant), and "mere entertainment" as such, in which the art work doesn't stand in itself.

I think it's all just creative artifice and the quality of it, good or bad, is decided by the listener. No castigation either way. Just my thoughts.

[;ivlunsdystf]

Everyone has a different threshold beyond which artifice is labeled "bullshit" and summarily dismissed (or, in the case of those who can't quietly get over it, dissed ad nauseum on messageboards)

[Rick Hunter]

EMO SUCKS!

[SaneMan]

Personally, I've always thought of Neil Young as one of the most genuine musicians ever. I mean, I really doubt he carefully ripped his jeans.

But what a pointless argument anyway, we're all "part bullshit", so why single out artists or musicians? And really, if you don't like the way someone goes about their life, don't associate yourself with them and move on. It really is that simple...

Speaking of which, I'll be moving on now

[cgarges]

Sorry guys, but I've asked you before. Keep it civil. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but opinions that lead to personal attacks and insults will not be tolerated here. The personal insults have been deleted and his thread is now locked.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC