so the band i'm recording wants me to be their sound-guy

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digital eagle audio
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so the band i'm recording wants me to be their sound-guy

Post by digital eagle audio » Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:19 pm

which, first of all is such a fucking huge compliment. they are only my second gig ever, so that kind of encouragement means the world to me.
the trouble is, and i was totally up front with them, that i've never done live sound before, and i'm kind of terrified. they are cool with that, and want me to learn so that i can do it for them. i know the tape-op boards don't really deal with that too much, but i'm sure a few of you guys are knowledgeable on the subject. i got a copy of ear-wise to practice with, and i'm making arrangements with a local club to let me try and mix the band there on an off night.
what other steps should i be taking to prepare?
thanks!

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Post by joelpatterson » Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:27 am

Congrats! You must have a winning way about you. As far as the actual task of mixing a live band, you just need to become familiar with their extremes, like how much they keep cranking up the amps, for one thing. How much effects on the vocals is appropriate. How much drum reinforcement you need.

Experience is probably the only teacher, once you do it for a bit, you'll develop an instinct for the 45 things you control and how each affects the others.

Kind of a cliche to say this is a thankless task--you do everything right and you're perfectly invisible, you do one thing wrong and you're an idiot. The most common way I made an idiot of myself is thinking there was some improvement to be achieved, and started jiggling dials. This jiggling is disorienting for the audience, even if you can make it sound better. Best to leave it alone it it's working. Good luck!
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Post by drumsound » Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:12 pm

This is an observation as a listener. Go to the crossover. Find the "sub-output" control. Wherever the club has it set...turn it to half of that. I've never been in a club (or a big concert) with a rock or pop type band (R&B and HipHop are a whole 'nuther world) where the fucking subs were not doing more harm than good.

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Post by cgarges » Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:41 pm

I've gotten these kinds of offers before, both on a full-time and one-shot basis. I always turn them down and offer to recommend someone who really does live sound because I don't and it's a different ball game. But, if it's something you're into, that's cool. If you like these guys (personally) and think you could do a good job working for them, rock on. Congratulations!

Chris Garges
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Post by AnalogElectric » Sat Dec 17, 2005 9:39 pm

I agree with Chris.

I've been asked many many many times to do live reinforcement for bands I've recorded but I'll end up telling them, "I don't do that but I have a few people that could do it much better than myself".

I don't like doing live sound in a bar/club. It's a whole other monster-in-a-box. I know live guys/gals that feel the same about their position and studio engineers. It's different. I think the most I've done for a live setting is tweaked a few amps, tuned the drums, and/or gave a few suggestions to the live engineer during sound-check.

The few times I've done live sound for a band I've worked with in the studio at places like First Avenue Mainroom and the 7th Street Entry, my biggest bitch were the drunk patrons coming up to me asking for changes in the house mix... I just can't deal with that. Best way to deal with it is to give him or her a sign 'like' you'll take care of it.... but not really do anything at all (fake it... fake movement on a knob sorta thing).

I have plenty of good friends that are excellent live engineers and I do feel sorry for them but yet again I think it takes a different sort of personality. At least for the people I know that do it and when I'm there for a show their doing they'll ask my advice on how it sounds and I find it a mission to run around the whole club space in order to give my approval and/or suggestions. Most of the time it's a big 'thumbs-up', they already have been working in that room long enough to know better.

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Post by mertmo » Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:37 am

I did live sound for a few years and learned a lot from it. Foremost, that I was going to go deaf real fast if I stayed in that line of work. Just those three years contributed significantly to my hearing damage. So when I saw that I could possibly be good at studio recording, I quit doing live sound immediately. Plus I could not take the super late nights, smelling like cigarrette smoke every night, drunk patrons, asshole bands, etc. anymore.

But my point is not to discourage you at all. I learned a LOT from doing it, and on occassion had a really good time. I will still occasionally mix a certain band in town that I am pals with.
I think what I am trying to say is you should do it! You will no doubt glean tons of knowledge and more importantly CONFIDENCE from doing live sound. There is nothing like troubleshooting a live show to give you that "thousand yard stare". This type of confidence always comes in handy in the studio for me, and I learned it doing sound. It could be really fun hanging with a band you like, too.

Just beware of getting in to being a "soundguy". The cons can outweigh the pros pretty fast...

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Post by digital eagle audio » Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:16 am

cgarges wrote:I've gotten these kinds of offers before, both on a full-time and one-shot basis. I always turn them down and offer to recommend someone who really does live sound because I don't and it's a different ball game. But, if it's something you're into, that's cool. If you like these guys (personally) and think you could do a good job working for them, rock on. Congratulations!

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
yeah, i just figure it'll help teach me a lot of god stuff that i can use in the studio.

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digital eagle audio
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Post by digital eagle audio » Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:18 am

good stuff. that should read good stuff.

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Post by cgarges » Mon Dec 19, 2005 11:09 am

narcopolo wrote:good stuff. that should read good stuff.
Thanks for not editing that. It was worth the laugh.

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Post by stinkpot » Mon Dec 19, 2005 11:48 am

drumsound wrote:This is an observation as a listener. Go to the crossover. Find the "sub-output" control. Wherever the club has it set...turn it to half of that. I've never been in a club (or a big concert) with a rock or pop type band (R&B and HipHop are a whole 'nuther world) where the fucking subs were not doing more harm than good.
I second that motion. That's one of the reason's there are certain clubs in Chicago I simply won't pay to see shows at anymore. Just a big wall of WOOOMOOO - and such a simple fix too.

Sheesh.

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Post by drumsound » Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:39 pm

stinkpot wrote:
drumsound wrote:This is an observation as a listener. Go to the crossover. Find the "sub-output" control. Wherever the club has it set...turn it to half of that. I've never been in a club (or a big concert) with a rock or pop type band (R&B and HipHop are a whole 'nuther world) where the fucking subs were not doing more harm than good.
I second that motion. That's one of the reason's there are certain clubs in Chicago I simply won't pay to see shows at anymore. Just a big wall of WOOOMOOO - and such a simple fix too.

Sheesh.
I saw the Foo Fighters and Weezer in Champaign recently. The bass players could have stayed home. There was so much low-end bullshit from the bass drum and floor toms that I could not differentiate a single note from the bass guitar all night. It's maddening!

Are you talking about Metro?

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Post by ape32 » Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:38 pm

I do both and I truly enjoy live work - I am luck though I do Sat. nights only (day job) and at one of the best clubs in town - so lots of great bands.

It really does teach you to solve problems fast and can be a confidence booster. I do get the occaisional bit of audience "advice" but mostly people either leave me alone or give me props. I do have a no BS look so perhaps they are afraid to "help"!

Please DO NOT fuck with the club's crossovers or even mains EQ unless you have some idea what you are doing. Most low end OD is caused by touring mixers trying to crush the audience. Just don't goose the shit out of the low end (highpass everything except the kick and bass G. to start, until you get a handle on the mix). Talk to the house guy and use your ears and you will be fine!

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Post by judecca » Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:22 am

if you decide to do the live gig, make sure and protect your ears! all the learning in the world won't help if you get your 'drums blasted out.

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Post by PeterAuslan » Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:36 am

I started out in live sound. I switched to recording because a lot of bands liked my live mixes, so they figured I might be good in the studio. Of course the stage and the studio are very very different. Live mixing you only have one chance to get it right whereas you can fix most things in the studio. Its very exciting in that respect.

Audience advice is pretty funny. Someone will come up to me and say that the bass needs to be louder, I respond by saying "Are you the bassist's girl/boyfriend?" They respond " How did you know?!"

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Post by @?,*???&? » Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:26 am

I always so no to this. It's a different domain. Records are forever baby.

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