Best Cheap Upgrade on your Gibson Guitar Handsdown!

[meldar produxshunz]

so i have two gibson custom shop VOS les pauls. a 1959 with burstbuckers, and a 1954 goldtop with p90s. both great guitars. when i have my amps cranked, i use the volume on them to clean up the sound. old school classic rock style. i noticed that when i did this before, the signal would always get kind of dark, even muddy. upon researching on some forums, it turns out that gibson still uses cheap ass pots and capacitors (made to look vintage of course) on these "historic" custom shop guitars. i was pissed and found someone that specializes in making quality "vintage spec" pots and caps the way they used to. i am glad to say, after switching to all high quality CTS pots and the caps to Luxe remakes of the bumblebee caps in my '59, and grey tigers in '54 (along with 250k tone pots), that this was the best money i have EVER spent improving my tone for less than a $100. its like hearing brand new pickups without the $$$. the only thing that even came close to such an improvement was putting a Weber speaker in my amp. so check out RS Guitarworks. ask for billy and he will hook you up. trust me. SO WORTH IT!

[lyman]

so i have two gibson custom shop VOS les pauls. a 1959 with burstbuckers, and a 1954 goldtop with p90s. both great guitars. when i have my amps cranked, i use the volume on them to clean up the sound. old school classic rock style. i noticed that when i did this before, the signal would always get kind of dark, even muddy. upon researching on some forums, it turns out that gibson still uses cheap ass pots and capacitors (made to look vintage of course) on these "historic" custom shop guitars. i was pissed and found someone that specializes in making quality "vintage spec" pots and caps the way they used to. i am glad to say, after switching to all high quality CTS pots and the caps to Luxe remakes of the bumblebee caps in my '59, and grey tigers in '54 (along with 250k tone pots), that this was the best money i have EVER spent improving my tone for less than a $100. its like hearing brand new pickups without the $$$. the only thing that even came close to such an improvement was putting a Weber speaker in my amp. so check out RS Guitarworks. ask for billy and he will hook you up. trust me. SO WORTH IT!

Cool. I bought a replacement electronics kit for my 335 a couple years ago but I haven't gotten around to replacing it. Mostly because 335's are a pain to work on and I'm lazy. Maybe I'll try it one of these weekends. I think mine has Hovland caps.

[fossiltooth]

To be fair to Gibson, the original vintage pots were also pretty crappy, and often made of "pot metal" that was prone to breakage. Additionally, like most guitars, the original vintage Gibsons would also darken up as you rolled back on the volume control. This is normal, a not a sign of "The crappy new way they make guitars these days".

The "treble bleed mod" has been popular for years, and it requires adding a capacitor to the volume pot to avoid tone loss when rolling off some volume. It's probably one of the most popular simple mods out there.

Although this is a good trick, I wouldn't recommend citing a standard and historically correct design feature to bash Gibson's custom shop.

Either way, they make some pretty good stuff. Try to be happy with your $3k+ purchases... or just give one of 'em to me.

[Jim Williams]

I've been building guitars since the 1960's and never found any difference in passive tone control caps that made any meaningful difference. All passive tone controls load down the top end of the pickups, even when on "10". If I must use them I just shove a Wima MKP-2 series polyprop film cap, nice and small.

Fender markets a tone control with a switch that disconnects the tone control when on 10. That does open up the tops as most of my guitars have no passive tone controls to avoid pickup loading.

CTS pots are ok, but one should consider using the excellent Bourns conductive plastic guitar pots available from Mouser and Digi-Key. Those are a cut above any carbon based pots.

[ashcat_lt]

It's actually got almost nothing to do with the tone pot. Turning down the volume control increases the series resistance of the circuit while at the same time reducing the parallel resistance to ground. This alters the time constant of the big long capacitor that we call a guitar cable. Since that "capacitor" runs between the signal "hot" and "ground" it tends to short high frequencies.

The tone cap itself has very little actual effect on tone until you've got the tone pot turned way down. The tone pot itself, being in parallel with the rest of the circuit, does tend to reduce the parallel resistance, which again alters the cutoff frequency from the cable capacitance.

The treble bleed mod mentioned above, done correctly, can help. Unfortunately, if you want your tone to stay exactly the same - only quieter - when reducing volume, you need to end the Hi-Z guitar circuit with a buffer and attenuate the Lo-Z output thereof.

[meldar produxshunz]

hmmm...hate to disagree, but i have played a few all original 59s, 175s, 335s and none had the qualities i spoke of. they were way more responsive and usable through the entire range of the volume and tones. and i would say that passing off a standard shit ceramic capacitor in "bumblebee" clothing IS a big shlep that i am kind of pissed about after paying a few Gs to gibson. AND to be fair to gibson, they actually HAVE listened to people's moaning because they started using different pots in the new 2009 reissues, so i guess i DO have a valid critique. that being said, after correcting the gibson penny pinching, i am totally happy and wont be sending it anyone. i couldnt find a better new guitar anywhere. i would suspect that anyone that says the pots and caps dont make a difference doesnt really use their controls all that much.

[meldar produxshunz]

hmmm...hate to disagree, but i have played a few all original 59s, 175s, 335s and none had the qualities i spoke of. they were way more responsive and usable through the entire range of the volume and tones. and i would say that passing off a standard shit ceramic capacitor in "bumblebee" clothing IS a big shlep that i am kind of pissed about after paying a few Gs to gibson. AND to be fair to gibson, they actually HAVE listened to people's moaning because they started using different pots in the new 2009 reissues, so i guess i DO have a valid critique. that being said, after correcting the gibson penny pinching, i am totally happy and wont be sending it anyone. i couldnt find a better new guitar anywhere. i would suspect that anyone that says the pots and caps dont make a difference doesnt really use their controls all that much.

[Jim Williams]

Such are the compromises when dealing with high impedance transducers. I never liked any of the passive "tricks" used to recover lost high frequencies due to carbon pot loading, they created weird top end responses.

My solution was found in 1972. I use a buffer circuit inside all the guitars. Output impedance is below 5 ohms. It drives cables for miles without loss. The volume is a 10k ohm Bourns conductive plastic which works like an high end audio fader. The tone is the same on 2 as on 10. It even drives headphones for silent practice. It melts the front ends of tube amps in a very nice way, thick and punchy along with all the 10~20k hz harmonics intact.

[wren]

I used to do instrument setups and minor repairs at a guitar shop. Aside from restringings, our most common form of business was fixing intermittent electronics in almost-brand-new (and often higher-end) Gibson Les Pauls. Their electronics suck, at least based on how many pots and jacks I replaced on six-month-old instruments. We never got an inordinate amount of SGs or 335s, but I don't know if that's because they're made a little differently or if they're just nowhere near as popular.

[Andrew707]

I had a '54 re-issue Gold Top. Awesome guitar...I mean, crappy guitar. You sure you don't want get rid of it? It's just holding your tone back!

[fossiltooth]

All I can say is when I worked at a guitar store around 2000, I dug quite a few of the Custom shop and Historic Gibsons that would come through. I sold quite a few of them, and thought the quality control and build in their custom shop was pretty good overall.... far better than their lowend anyway... You'd be amazed by how many SG specials we would have to send back. Absurd.

Personally, I'd never think to compare a 40 year old guitar side by side with a plank of wood and guts that just came out of the factory. They're different animals.

I'm the kind of guy who has always modded his new guitars. Now I build one a year instead. I would often bypass my tone and volume pots instead of going for the treble bleed mod, but that's just my style. I say, if something makes you feel better about your instrument, go ahead and do it. Hell, even if you just co-opt the "green sharpie trick" ain't no harm in it. Make it personal.

My only points were:

1) All un-modded guitars bleed treble when you turn the volume down.... unless they're "modded" in the factory. (In that case, can you call it a "mod"? Or would going back to a "standard" cap then be a mod... Ow... Brain...)

2) I feel Gibson gets a little more flak than they deserve. They're a huge company now, trying to fill a lot of niches. The last time I worked in a shop, they were doing it fairly well... or at least as well as any other mainstream guitar builder.

Don't like em? Go buy a Heritage or something. That's what I would do, anyway.

Anyway, OP, enjoy your newly amped up gee-tar... you defensive bastard!

[rty5150]

a better nut. gibson nuts are HORRIBLE!!!
my best upgrade for a gibson is an edwards. better guitar for less than half.


rich

[roygbiv]

Hey

(sorry for the slight thread hijack below)-

I have a 1998 Gibson Les Paul Special that has surprisingly become my "main axe" over the last year (I say surprising, because for the last 20 years I been almost exclusively a Fender guy).

For some reason, I like this Les Paul special. It is red. It looks cool, in a semi-punk way. I even like the P100 pickups.

What would you Les Paul guys suggest for modding such a guitar?

The style of music is "classic rock", and "classic early punk/new wave".

In other words, I like to be able to get a clean, warm tone, and also a ballsy, crunchy distortion.
thx

d

[meldar produxshunz]

the reason i posted was because i was happy that its still possible to make small $$$ improvements that make such a noticeable difference. and wanted to shout out the small companies out there that still make quality products to help bring up to "good ol days" spec the things that the big dogs have stuck players with to deal with for themselves. it wasnt always like that.
...if i seem defensive, maybe its because certain compulsive posters have to always act like someone is too spoiled to deserve what they have. (insert crying smiley icon here for all the guys with gear envy). i am very thankful. which is why i wrote the post.
...a "treble bleed mod" is a different animal all together. all i did was put pots in that actually work and have been tested by people that care about the product (RS Guitarworks). and actual "paper in oil" caps instead of cheap ceramics painted to look like bumblebees. LAME. thats not true to how they were made in the day and it is capitalism at its ugliest. but if you were to compare the majority of newly made historic guitar to the actual real thing, on quality of wood and craftmenship, i would say that the custom shop has put more effort into making good guitars than they ever have. but would you spend 100 G on a never console and then run it through crap monitors? the fact that they skimp on something so small that would probably cost them around $5 more is upsetting when it can make such an audible difference. just saying its annoying, though easily fixed thanks to RS. peace and love.

[Marc Alan Goodman]

I've upgraded a couple guitars with RS Guitarworks parts and have consistently been EXTREMELY happy. So there's that. I trust Jim quite a bit as well having used some of his modded gear, but I haven't gotten to the point of installing buffers in any of my guitars... yet.