floating a floor...

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JohnDavisNYC
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Post by JohnDavisNYC » Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:30 pm

well, i'm not exactly rushing into it, i've got 4 months to figure it out... i understand a bit about knowing the ammount of weight thaat will rest on the u boat thingies, but could you point me to some sort of chart that will tell me how many i should use for certain weights? although it seems there must be a pretty large ammount of leeway... if a studio gets a new console, it might be 100 lbs more than the old one, and i doubt that a studio would tear the whole room up to change the elastomers for that, or if an addition rack of gear gets added, etc... maybe it is true that i shouldn't even bother, but part of my reason for wanting to float it is to have a wooden floor to roll around on instead of this damn tile that the wheels of my chair get stuck in trying to cruise around the room. maybe i should just do parquet floor on sheet block or something... abandon the floating idea for now and focus on the walls... which brings me to my next question...

is there a problem with triple walls? i.e. there is already a 'normal' wall, and i plan on sheetblocking and then additional drywall on the inside, and then building a 'half wall' on the other side that is seperate from the inside 'full wall'... does that make sense?

------------------------
===============

like something like that shitty diagram thingy i just made.... all three layers would be different thicknesses with insulation in between....

has anyone done anything similar?

cheers,
john
i like to make music with music and stuff and things.

http://www.thebunkerstudio.com/

blunderfonics
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Post by blunderfonics » Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:12 pm

I wish I could point you to a chart or installation guide for U-Boat's, neoprene or other elastomers, but I don't have one at hand. I'm in the planning stages myself and am going through the float-or-not-float debate as well, but I've yet to come across a good "So you want to float a floor" guide. I have lived with a poorly floated floor for the last few years and read enough to make me wonder if it's money well spent to try to DIY a floated floor without some professional consultation.

I'm sure there is a range at which a floated floor will work where changing a console or inviting a couple extra guys into the contol room won't significantly affect the performance of the system. My main concern would be making sure that a floor is built so that it as at least somewhere close to the reccomended amount of compression (no easy feat given the amount of variables and lack of concice information available).

Supposedly a Triple wall does not provide the same performance if you used the same materials in a 2 leaf system, the amount of mass on the wall is the same but the airgap (which acts as a spring) is much larger in a 2 leaf system. So instead of something like this:

------------------ drywall
| | | | | studs
------------------ drywall
AIRGAP
| | | | | studs
------------------ drywall

...you would be much better off with something like this:

------------------ drywall
------------------ drywall
| | | | | studs
AIRGAP
| | | | | studs
------------------ drywall

I realize that it might not be possible to tear that inner layer of drywall off and move it to the other side of the studs but you may still get better performance by simply removing that inner leaf of drywall leaving you with this:
------------------ drywall
| | | | | studs
AIRGAP
| | | | | studs
------------------ drywall

Check out this paper, specifically the diagrams on page 3:
http://www.audio-muziek.nl/audiotechniek/acoustics.pdf
I don't know how reputable this source is but these ideas often get reiterated over at John Sayers' forum.

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Post by stuntbutt » Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:50 am

If you are starting with a concrete slab I question your need to float anything. It takes a lot of sound energy to vibrate a concrete slab and transfer that to another room. It is doubtfull that the walls/doors/windows you construct will have a lower STC than transmission from the slab.

How about this for an solution: Rent a concrete saw and make a 1/4" wide cut in the slab. Fill with acoustic chaulk. Bam! Oh yeah, I guess you should figure out where the drain lines are first.

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JohnDavisNYC
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Post by JohnDavisNYC » Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:58 am

well i guess i won't float the floor then. the only problem is that this tile SUCKS for rolling around in a chair on,... wheels get stuck in the seams sometimes... oh well... not the biggest deal in the world... saves me some money to not float a floor.

cheers,
john
i like to make music with music and stuff and things.

http://www.thebunkerstudio.com/

stuntbutt
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Post by stuntbutt » Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:51 am

If you are hating the tile you could lay a Pergo style floor right on top. I've seen the knockoff brand flooring as low as $1.50/sq. ft. Good luck!

mysteriousmammal
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Post by mysteriousmammal » Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:08 pm

Yep, I agree. You're not going to get any more isolation out of it, so unless you need to absorb some low mids, why waste the money? Put some wood flooring right on top of the tile. Pergo, modular tongue and groove, whatever.

As for wall construction, check the johnlsayers.com site for that. It's a wealth of info. They also say that sheetblock is a waste of money, compared to another layer of drywall.

Good luck!

jajjguy
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Post by jajjguy » Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:16 pm

blunderfonics and stuntbutt are both speaking the truth.

concrete definitely will transmit some amount of sound, but it's unlikely that your wall will be so good as to make this a significant factor. in any case, cutting the slab as stuntbutt suggested will take care of this -- but make sure that's ok structurally.

the three leaves thing: there's nothing really wrong with three leaves, as long as the airgaps are different depths or the leaves are different densities or thicknesses... the real issue is the depth of the airgap. one gap of 12 inches is better than 8 inches then 4 inches. the biggest airgap is the one that matters. so yes, stick with two leaves, and put all the layers of drywall you can afford on the outsides.

sounddevisor
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Post by sounddevisor » Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:33 am

I'm with stuntbutt - Pergo (or some other laminate flooring) will probably gib=ve you the results you want.

One caution - since you are talking about a basement floor, make very sure that you don't have any water problems before you put a floor over the existing slab. Water, or even just dampness, wicking through the concrete can ruin an overlaid floor quickly, particularly one which is glued down.

I would recommend using one of the glueless, click-together laminate floor systems - no glue means no failure due to moisture or seasonal temp/humidity change. And nailless means you won't have to put down a 3/4" subfloor to nail into.

My studio is in the basement, and this is what I did for the control room floor: Thoroseal masonry waterproofer to seal the existing concrete slab; 1/4" foam underlayment; low-end Pergo click-together floor. It's been in place for almost two years now and I have not had any problems with seams separating or buckling. The only thing I'm unhappy with is that the Pergo sounds like plastic when you drop something (like a cable) on it - which of course I only do a few hundred times a day. In retropect, I wish I had used a slightly higher grade of Pergo - I think some of the higher-end models look and even sound much more like real wood.

But for durability and ease of installation, it can't be beat. And chairs roll great on it!

Good luck!

-sounddevisor

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