What's the scene in Seattle/Portland, et al.? (First leap.)

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evan
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What's the scene in Seattle/Portland, et al.? (First leap.)

Post by evan » Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:12 pm

I'm curious as to the studio opportunities, or lack thereof, in these two fair cities. I'm not looking for a job anytime too soon (two years from now, likely), but I thought I'd get an early scope as to how things are going in either place.

Right now I'm taking basic audio courses at The Evergreen State College, and I'm hoping to be relatively well-skilled and experienced by the time I leave -- in a perfect world, I'll have been an audio peon at the Washington State Theatre, know some basic electronics, and have interned somewhere. What's the job prospects for someone at that skill level? I'm interested in doing studio work, but would obviously be willing to do other things first to get there (live sound, film, etc.). Are there any other skills or accolades that'll especially help? Also, can you make a living (i.e., not have to wash dishes as well) at the bottom?

Anyway, tell me what things are like, and maybe give some advice for a future full-time audio tinkerer. Although I have Portland and Seattle in mind as possible locales, I only mention them because of their close vicinity. Anyone who wants to chime in about their city and recording scene, I'd want to hear about it too.

Also, I realize that this kind of stuff is fairly redundant (I checked out the "how did you start out" thread, of course), but I guess I'm mostly wondering about the basic means (skills, experience) that are useful and valuable when trying to enter into the general audio scene.

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Post by rolandk » Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:42 pm

Are you looking to work in an existing studio or start something up yourself? The music and recording scene in Portland is WAY down from 10-15 years ago. It would be very difficult to make a living as a recording engineer, especially with so many bands recording themselves these days. Having said all that, someone with an incredible amount of passion and drive could be successful.
A few friends of mine are/were in the studio biz, one quit a couple years ago after releasing a good amount of work but almost living in poverty, his partner moved to a different place and I'm not sure if he is up and running full time yet. Another friend has a full time studio in his basement where he does bands and commercials. He stays busy but again, dosen't make much money. Especially when you need $50K+ of gear just to charge $25.00 an hour. Its tough, my hats off to all of you cats who can pull it off. Definately a labor of love.
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Post by evan » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:21 am

I'm not really interested in having my own space. The way I see it is, I love to record things, not run a business, and the shortest route to that is joining an existing business and working there. Working the businessman side of a studio seems unattractive to me, and, combined with the engineer side, seems poised to cause a lot of grief. There's other benefits in established studios as well, that are not available or very difficult to accomplish in a home studio, like the ability to learn new things from someone else (very important to me, actually) and having a well-developed set of equipment and a space. I don't know if in two years I'll be an accomplished-enough engineer to distinguish myself from the gigantic mess of home setups that are out there, or have a respectable set of gear and space to work from to accomodate clients properly. I don't want to be just another addition to the scene of mediocre basement outfits.

Of course, I'm polarizing the two choices I have. It's completely possible that I could work a normal job, or even an audio-related job, and try to start a recording space on the side. There's definitely something to starting out small, and building up. But I'd rather make a mad jump for what I want to do and fail, rather than just fool around with it on the side for a long time. Making a space is definitely a long-term investment, and I feel I'll always have the opportunity to go that route.

In the end, it doesn't really matter if it's my space or someone else's. I've just assumed that working at someone else's place is a much surer, quicker way to get right to recording.

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Post by workshed » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:20 pm

I kind of think that in the Portland area, you'd do best to hookup with some local studios that rent out to engineers and do the freelance thing. There are not a ton of "big" studios here. Check out Supernatural sound, for example. A great space that rents out to freelance engineers. http://www.supernatural-sound.com/

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Post by evan » Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:43 pm

Wow, that Supernatural Sound looks spectacular. That's something to keep in mind if I'm able to charge clients over $40/hour.

So I guess the verdict for Portland is 'meh' as far as the studio market. Any word from Seattle?

And thanks for replying. I'm kind of just working out completely theoretical possibilities out loud, and I'm glad people are willing to chime in on it.

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Post by workshed » Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:05 pm

There are some other studios as well, I think as a freelancer you could find some good places to frequent, especially ones that would be cheaper than Supernatural. Kung Fu Bakery is another, and I think that if you can gain Larry's confidence, he also rents out Jackpot! to a select few engineers as well. And of course, keep in mind that I am by no means the oracle on PDX studios. There's a lot I'm leaving due to sheer ignorance. Someone else chime in!

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Post by rolandk » Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:55 pm

Here are some studios around town, from Two Louies magazine.
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Post by evan » Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:42 pm

Cool, great stuff! Freelance sounds like a decent deal, once you get fairly competent and familiar with each studio's gear and space particularities. You get the advantage of reliable resources, without having to make the long-term investment. Definitely something else to think about...

And hey! Thread ghosts! Post something! I <i>know</i> there's more people who're from Portland, and even more from Seattle, and even <i>more</i> from other cities. I care!

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Post by Shawn Simmons » Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:11 am

Seattle is a great music town. There are a ton of bands, venues, and (unfortunately) recording studios. The studio market here is very saturated. It runs the gamut from high end SSL mix rooms to a guy in his basement with Cubase. Every band has a friend who thinks he is a producer/engineer (and sometimes actually is) and has a studio. Everyone is undercutting everyone else to get work. Seattle is not an unfriendly place to be but it is very competitive. You will find an internship with some hussle but finding a paying job at a studio is next to impossible. Especially if you aren't bringing in your own clients (that are paying close to the daily rate). Sadly, it seems as though the days of being a house engineer at a studio and getting a salary are gone. At least in Seattle. Granted even when I as a house engineer, I was making less than minimum wage (and told many times by the owner to be grateful for what little I got, the prick). Do your homework, research the studios, maybe get an internship and see what you think. Some people find that they just can't or won't struggle to make it in the studio world. It may not be what you thought it would be.

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Post by I'm Painting Again » Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:05 am

Evan..do you realize that a freelance type job can suck big time?..I used to be a freelance video editor and cameraman..and still do when its worth it for me..sure you might make 700$ a day or whatever..but you might only work one day a month!..there are no health benefits..no security at all..thats a messed up thing trust me..you will go gray at 25..unless you have clients lined up at the door and people booking you every day..you know you have to work really hard to do that..it takes years and years..and is entirely social circle based..that and maybe if you work on a band that "makes it" or have consistantly superior results making records for people at an affordable price..either way its a gamble as a career move..

I'm sorry to say but when you come out of recording school you still have 0 experience imo..its not untill you can produce consistant results(with no help) on deadline and know the craft inside out by working and working and working on records that you can even try to make a living from it..and then there are 1000 people with a little more experience applying for the same job..or you have to come up with the capitol to fund your own place..

what you want can be done but its an uphill battle for sure..

even the guys booked every day with the studios are not making as much as you might think..even my friend who engineers full time for one of the chic-est high dollar, superstar filled studios in America makes a very modest salary and gets shit for benefits..

I'm by no means an expert on studio and local economies but this is my opinion..

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Post by evan » Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:57 pm

Shawn1272 wrote:Seattle is a great music town. There are a ton of bands, venues, and (unfortunately) recording studios. The studio market here is very saturated. It runs the gamut from high end SSL mix rooms to a guy in his basement with Cubase. Every band has a friend who thinks he is a producer/engineer (and sometimes actually is) and has a studio. Everyone is undercutting everyone else to get work. Seattle is not an unfriendly place to be but it is very competitive. You will find an internship with some hussle but finding a paying job at a studio is next to impossible. Especially if you aren't bringing in your own clients (that are paying close to the daily rate). Sadly, it seems as though the days of being a house engineer at a studio and getting a salary are gone. At least in Seattle. Granted even when I as a house engineer, I was making less than minimum wage (and told many times by the owner to be grateful for what little I got, the prick). Do your homework, research the studios, maybe get an internship and see what you think. Some people find that they just can't or won't struggle to make it in the studio world. It may not be what you thought it would be.

shawn
That's basically the impressions I got about Seattle -- very much active, but very saturated. Thanks for the insights.

beard_of_bees wrote:Evan..do you realize that a freelance type job can suck big time?..I used to be a freelance video editor and cameraman..and still do when its worth it for me..sure you might make 700$ a day or whatever..but you might only work one day a month!..there are no health benefits..no security at all..thats a messed up thing trust me..you will go gray at 25..unless you have clients lined up at the door and people booking you every day..you know you have to work really hard to do that..it takes years and years..and is entirely social circle based..that and maybe if you work on a band that "makes it" or have consistantly superior results making records for people at an affordable price..either way its a gamble as a career move..

I'm sorry to say but when you come out of recording school you still have 0 experience imo..its not untill you can produce consistant results(with no help) on deadline and know the craft inside out by working and working and working on records that you can even try to make a living from it..and then there are 1000 people with a little more experience applying for the same job..or you have to come up with the capitol to fund your own place..

what you want can be done but its an uphill battle for sure..

even the guys booked every day with the studios are not making as much as you might think..even my friend who engineers full time for one of the chic-est high dollar, superstar filled studios in America makes a very modest salary and gets shit for benefits..

I'm by no means an expert on studio and local economies but this is my opinion..
You make very good points, I'm glad you let me know about the realities of freelancing and recording. As far as my schooling, I'm very much aware that it's hardly preparation for the job market. That's why I'm trying to find out exactly what is preparation, so I can have some semblance of working experience when I leave school. Luckily my school is very flexible about how I educate myself, so at least I have some options as to what I can accomplish. I'm also aware that the market for audio types is generally scarce and difficult. But at this point in time I don't know what else I want to do for a living, so the most I can do is try to prepare myself for that direction. That's why I'm polling everyone here.

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Post by rolandk » Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:12 pm

Evan- do you own or have access to any recording gear and can you find a place to record right now? Doesn't have to be fancy, could just be a 4 track cassette with a few cheap mics in a basement.
IMO the best preparation is to get out in the music community and start hustling recording gigs now. This is exactly what a freelance engineer does and will give you a taste of what its really like in the 'real world'.
Do you play an instrument? If so, maybe try to start or join a band and record rehearsals or make demos.
The main thing is to get as much hands on experience as quick as possible.
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Post by evan » Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:04 pm

Oh yeah, I definitely have a start on recording. I've been recording myself and friends' bands for about 4 years now, on four-track, 2- and 8-in computer setups, and 1/2" tape at school. I have decent grasp of all the basic production techniques, like compression, subtractive EQing, mic placement, etc., and am continually trying to develop them further. The basic audio courses I'm taking have been unsurprising, and are mostly to put myself through the necessary academic paces I need to do more advanced work. I'm definitely considering trying to offer free recordings of local bands and artists, so I can build experience trying to meet specific needs. That seems like the most practical step I can take at this point. I also have access to a lot of great gear now at school, and I'm hoping I can get a couple bands in there as well so I can go through the paces in a much more realistic situation (i.e., with real board, decent space, and actual mic choices).

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Post by Electro-Voice 664 » Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:45 am

Evan, have you thought about staying in Oly? Seems to have enough music going on to keep someone busy. Also the evergreen studio has loads of great grear, like API consoles and plenty of great mics, seems like being able to learn on their gear would give you a leg-up as far as using high priced gear goes. Have you been able to bring in outside projects and do some networking? I tend to find most larger studios want more clients than anything else from an intern. Getting bands into the studio is the first step in any recording studio, and so I see that as a major highlight. If you can approach an established studio with a project and keep new clients coming in, they would be crazy to turn you away. Good luck!
Last edited by Electro-Voice 664 on Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by evan » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:44 am

wintershed wrote:Evan, have you thought about staying in Oly? Seems to have enough music going on to keep someone busy. Also the evergreen studio has loads of great grear, like API consoles and plenty of great mics, seems like being able to learn on their gear would give you a leg-up as far as using high priced gear goes. Have you been able to bring in outside projects and do some networking? I tend to find most larger studios want more clients than anything else from an intern. Getting bands into the studio is the first step in any recording studio, and so I see that as a major lightlight. If you can approach an established studio with a project and keep new clients coming in, they would be crazy to turn you away. Good luck!
Actually, you're probably right about the scene here, now that I think about it. There's always a bunch of indie-like bands around, and not many studios to facilitate them, as well as a few other kinds of acts that play around town (metal bands, probably some more folk- and blues-style stuff). The only problem with using Evergreen's studios, although very well-equipt, is that I don't think we're allowed to use any of it for commercial ventures, since it's state property. I'm not sure how deep that restriction goes, so I'll have to look into it. I'm definitely appreciative of the fact that I have access to their stuff, though, and am able to learn my basics on an API board, with some very nice mics at my disposal. I haven't tried to bring in other bands yet, but that's what I'm planning on doing for my next project. Thanks a lot for the tips!

Thanks again to every who's replied. This stuff has been extremely helpful for me in finding out what options I have and what considerations I should make.

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