Charlie Parker

[LeedyGuy]

Today I'm going to be studying Charlie Parker and the Omni Book. I'm a drumset player, but I play vibes too so that's what I'll be playing most of today but I'm going to take a considerable amount of time just analyzing the tunes and the solos.. Anyway, if anyone has anything that I definitely have to check out or anyone has some great clues to unlocking some of the mysteries contained in the Omni Book (ex. "dude...he ALWAYS plays the b9 over dominant 7 chords when they go to a minor 7 chord") then lemme know!

[JohnDavisNYC]

i wish i could remember some of that stuff... i used to play alot of stuff out of the omni book... it's a great resource... what bird did was pretty mind blowing... anyway, it's been too long for me to remember any stuff like you asked.... but anyway... rock on.

john

[joeysimms]

What's the omni book? Is that like those 'fake' books?

[JohnDavisNYC]

the omni book is a collection of transcriptions of a ton of charlie parker tunes and solos... standards and originals... it's pretty daunting, especially if (like me) your sight reading isn't great... still, if you're patient, you can glean a great deal of information and insight by just going through the solos slowly note by note and learning them. i could never read well enought o read down a solo out of that book.

john

[joeysimms]

I see - I can't read muisc at all - I just learn from records.

[hammertime]

I just finished Miles Davis' autobiography, and really enjoyed it. I'd definitely recommend it for a first-person account of the excitement and vibe of the early bebop days. The chapters where Davis went to New York to go to Julliard, but really to look for Parker, were great reading.

Today I'm going to be studying Charlie Parker and the Omni Book. I'm a drumset player, but I play vibes too so that's what I'll be playing most of today but I'm going to take a considerable amount of time just analyzing the tunes and the solos.. Anyway, if anyone has anything that I definitely have to check out or anyone has some great clues to unlocking some of the mysteries contained in the Omni Book (ex. "dude...he ALWAYS plays the b9 over dominant 7 chords when they go to a minor 7 chord") then lemme know!

[joeysimms]

That 'Miles' book is all kinds of entertaining and inspiring.

[LeedyGuy]

the Miles book is a classic. I have the companion book to it called Miles and Me which is about the guy who helped Miles write his book and all ths crazy run ins they had.

Miles - "DO YOU LIKE MCCOY TYNERS PLAYING?!?!"
author - "(scared) hes alright i guess...i dunno"
Miles "WELL I THINK HE FUCKING SUCKS. just bangs on the goddamned piano and i told Trane not to use him cause HE FUCKING SUCKS."

GREAT stuff

anyway, i learned a lot about that darn Omni Book. first, its really hard to play on the vibraphone and any other instrument for sure. i did a lot of "notes he played over what chord" type of analysis and i didnt find anything mind boggling that i didnt already really now. also, i found a bunch of licks that he plays that are really sweet and bluesy that im going to incorporate into my own improvs and stuff. i actually ahve been improvising a lot on vibes lately (in my damn basement...not out in the world) and i've been recording some funky stuff with me blowing over it. pretty cool! i'll put it up on my myspace music page eventually, then i'll let you all know.

jazz fans be heard...

[jeddypoo]

My favorite Miles Davis/Parker story is the one where Gillespie, Parker, and Miles (I forgot who the rhythm section comprised of) are playing one of Parker's tunes, something with a very fast head, at a gig. Dizzy was actually playing PIANO on this tune, but Miles' chops weren't good enough to play the head with Parker so Dizzy had to stand up and play the head with one hand while comping with the other while Miles twiddled his thumbs.

At a certain point, Miles Davis becomes the Clapton of jazz. One of the finest cases of marketing outdoing actual talent.

[hammertime]

I guess I mentioned Miles' biography because I agree with his philosophy of music (keeping it alive, and not turning it into some mummified museum piece), and his notion that you don't really learn this music from music books or music classes (which is why he left Julliard), and you can't really extricate the music from the life these guys lived (on the edge, restless, intense). I think really reading what these guys had to say might be just as important as listening to their records or reading music books as far as understanding their music. As far as Miles being another Crapton, I kind of know what you mean -- after he came out of retirement in the 80s he became this sort of tragic ridiculous figure, but just the fact that he played with almost every major jazz legend would put him so far ahead of this "sorry ass cat" (using Mile's words to describe most rock musicians), that

[jeddypoo]

I guess I mentioned Miles' biography because I agree with his philosophy of music (keeping it alive, and not turning it into some mummified museum piece), and his notion that you don't really learn this music from music books or music classes (which is why he left Julliard), and you can't really extricate the music from the life these guys lived (on the edge, restless, intense). I think really reading what these guys had to say might be just as important as listening to their records or reading music books as far as understanding their music. As far as Miles being another Crapton, I kind of know what you mean -- after he came out of retirement in the 80s he became this sort of tragic ridiculous figure, but just the fact that he played with almost every major jazz legend would put him so far ahead of this "sorry ass cat" (using Mile's words to describe most rock musicians), that

Well, certainly I wasn't trying to criticize anyone for liking him, but to my ears, Miles never had great chops, and is very very very much an overrated figure in jazz- he was marketed very effectively as an icon- so much so that people will ignore the fact that <i>In A Silent Way</i> is essential a one-chord vamp with modal noodling of no distinction on top of it, which goes on for a very long time and has no central theme or head- they'll call THAT a masterpiece- because they think that's what they're supposed to think. Because, you know, it's fuckin' Miles, dude. What Miles Davis DID do was jumpstart the careers of a bunch of true jazz geniuses. He was also a good arranger and composer- hence <i>Kind Of Blue</i>- but a genius? A giant on the level of Monk, Ellington, Mingus, Coltrane, Rollins, or Bill Evans for that matter? No way. Smoke and mirrors.

[LeedyGuy]

I guess I mentioned Miles' biography because I agree with his philosophy of music (keeping it alive, and not turning it into some mummified museum piece), and his notion that you don't really learn this music from music books or music classes (which is why he left Julliard), and you can't really extricate the music from the life these guys lived (on the edge, restless, intense). I think really reading what these guys had to say might be just as important as listening to their records or reading music books as far as understanding their music. As far as Miles being another Crapton, I kind of know what you mean -- after he came out of retirement in the 80s he became this sort of tragic ridiculous figure, but just the fact that he played with almost every major jazz legend would put him so far ahead of this "sorry ass cat" (using Mile's words to describe most rock musicians), that

Well, certainly I wasn't trying to criticize anyone for liking him, but to my ears, Miles never had great chops, and is very very very much an overrated figure in jazz- he was marketed very effectively as an icon- so much so that people will ignore the fact that <i>In A Silent Way</i> is essential a one-chord vamp with modal noodling of no distinction on top of it, which goes on for a very long time and has no central theme or head- they'll call THAT a masterpiece- because they think that's what they're supposed to think. Because, you know, it's fuckin' Miles, dude. What Miles Davis DID do was jumpstart the careers of a bunch of true jazz geniuses. He was also a good arranger and composer- hence <i>Kind Of Blue</i>- but a genius? A giant on the level of Monk, Ellington, Mingus, Coltrane, Rollins, or Bill Evans for that matter? No way. Smoke and mirrors.

GASP!!

What Miles lacks in chops he makes up for a million fold in the gift of playing the right note at the exact right time. if you think that of In a Silent Way, then you missed the point. Anything after Chick Corea and Dave Holland hopped on board his quintet in about 1967 had nothing to do with Miles trumpet. It is about innovation. In a Silent Way is hot because nothing ever sounded like that before, not because Miles plays the best scales really fast over flat 9 chords. There's great little melodic fragments all over that album, especially in the guitars and the keys and these fragments become motives, even if Miles doesnt play them. If you want a good example of Miles actually being a great player, check out the 1956 Miles Davis Quintet with John Coltrane and Red Garland and Paul Chambers and Philly Joe Jones. the records are called Relaxin, Cookin, Workin and Steamin. thats Miles the PLAYER. he also plays really nicely on his work with Gil Evans. the rest of the stuff is Miles the Innovator and Miles the Composer and Miles the Arranger. Duke Ellington wasn't really setting the world on fire with his piano playing, but his bands and his arrangements are perfect. Look at it from that angle.

Another Miles story:
Jack Dejohnette and Billy Hart both play on On the Corner. Billy told me that while they were recording, Miles came up to them (everyone holding their breath as he was walking over) "Know any fuckin James Brown beats?" and walked away. Black Satin was born of that little exchange.

[jeddypoo]

I guess I mentioned Miles' biography because I agree with his philosophy of music (keeping it alive, and not turning it into some mummified museum piece), and his notion that you don't really learn this music from music books or music classes (which is why he left Julliard), and you can't really extricate the music from the life these guys lived (on the edge, restless, intense). I think really reading what these guys had to say might be just as important as listening to their records or reading music books as far as understanding their music. As far as Miles being another Crapton, I kind of know what you mean -- after he came out of retirement in the 80s he became this sort of tragic ridiculous figure, but just the fact that he played with almost every major jazz legend would put him so far ahead of this "sorry ass cat" (using Mile's words to describe most rock musicians), that

Well, certainly I wasn't trying to criticize anyone for liking him, but to my ears, Miles never had great chops, and is very very very much an overrated figure in jazz- he was marketed very effectively as an icon- so much so that people will ignore the fact that <i>In A Silent Way</i> is essential a one-chord vamp with modal noodling of no distinction on top of it, which goes on for a very long time and has no central theme or head- they'll call THAT a masterpiece- because they think that's what they're supposed to think. Because, you know, it's fuckin' Miles, dude. What Miles Davis DID do was jumpstart the careers of a bunch of true jazz geniuses. He was also a good arranger and composer- hence <i>Kind Of Blue</i>- but a genius? A giant on the level of Monk, Ellington, Mingus, Coltrane, Rollins, or Bill Evans for that matter? No way. Smoke and mirrors.

GASP!!

What Miles lacks in chops he makes up for a million fold in the gift of playing the right note at the exact right time. if you think that of In a Silent Way, then you missed the point. Anything after Chick Corea and Dave Holland hopped on board his quintet in about 1967 had nothing to do with Miles trumpet. It is about innovation. In a Silent Way is hot because nothing ever sounded like that before, not because Miles plays the best scales really fast over flat 9 chords. There's great little melodic fragments all over that album, especially in the guitars and the keys and these fragments become motives, even if Miles doesnt play them. If you want a good example of Miles actually being a great player, check out the 1956 Miles Davis Quintet with John Coltrane and Red Garland and Paul Chambers and Philly Joe Jones. the records are called Relaxin, Cookin, Workin and Steamin. thats Miles the PLAYER. he also plays really nicely on his work with Gil Evans. the rest of the stuff is Miles the Innovator and Miles the Composer and Miles the Arranger. Duke Ellington wasn't really setting the world on fire with his piano playing, but his bands and his arrangements are perfect. Look at it from that angle.

Another Miles story:
Jack Dejohnette and Billy Hart both play on On the Corner. Billy told me that while they were recording, Miles came up to them (everyone holding their breath as he was walking over) "Know any fuckin James Brown beats?" and walked away. Black Satin was born of that little exchange.

I think what I'm really reacting against here is the way his name gets thrown around by indie rockers and the general public sometimes as coinage in the world of cool. It's just kind of hollow. Yeah, the Prestige stuff is great. In fact the records you speak of, I believe, what I was referring to by introducing jazz greats to world- wasn't one of those Coltrane's first recorded appearences (I seem to remember, though, that Coltrane's playing didn't stand out to much on that)?

I just think the worship of him is a bit disingenious sometimes.
In that sense, it's a little like Clapton. Except, of course, Clapton is infinitely LESS talented, but as an analogue, I think it works alright.

[hammertime]

I just mentioned the autobiography as a primary source for someone interested in Charlie Parker in particular and the lifestyle of jazz musicians, seeing as how he not only played with Bird, but, gasp, Coltrane, Mingus, Monk, etc., etc. etc,. There's not that much in the book about Parker's music, but I just thought it might be useful to someone interested in the lifestyle of these musicians.

I guess I mentioned Miles' biography because I agree with his philosophy of music (keeping it alive, and not turning it into some mummified museum piece), and his notion that you don't really learn this music from music books or music classes (which is why he left Julliard), and you can't really extricate the music from the life these guys lived (on the edge, restless, intense). I think really reading what these guys had to say might be just as important as listening to their records or reading music books as far as understanding their music. As far as Miles being another Crapton, I kind of know what you mean -- after he came out of retirement in the 80s he became this sort of tragic ridiculous figure, but just the fact that he played with almost every major jazz legend would put him so far ahead of this "sorry ass cat" (using Mile's words to describe most rock musicians), that

Well, certainly I wasn't trying to criticize anyone for liking him, but to my ears, Miles never had great chops, and is very very very much an overrated figure in jazz- he was marketed very effectively as an icon- so much so that people will ignore the fact that <i>In A Silent Way</i> is essential a one-chord vamp with modal noodling of no distinction on top of it, which goes on for a very long time and has no central theme or head- they'll call THAT a masterpiece- because they think that's what they're supposed to think. Because, you know, it's fuckin' Miles, dude. What Miles Davis DID do was jumpstart the careers of a bunch of true jazz geniuses. He was also a good arranger and composer- hence <i>Kind Of Blue</i>- but a genius? A giant on the level of Monk, Ellington, Mingus, Coltrane, Rollins, or Bill Evans for that matter? No way. Smoke and mirrors.

GASP!!

What Miles lacks in chops he makes up for a million fold in the gift of playing the right note at the exact right time. if you think that of In a Silent Way, then you missed the point. Anything after Chick Corea and Dave Holland hopped on board his quintet in about 1967 had nothing to do with Miles trumpet. It is about innovation. In a Silent Way is hot because nothing ever sounded like that before, not because Miles plays the best scales really fast over flat 9 chords. There's great little melodic fragments all over that album, especially in the guitars and the keys and these fragments become motives, even if Miles doesnt play them. If you want a good example of Miles actually being a great player, check out the 1956 Miles Davis Quintet with John Coltrane and Red Garland and Paul Chambers and Philly Joe Jones. the records are called Relaxin, Cookin, Workin and Steamin. thats Miles the PLAYER. he also plays really nicely on his work with Gil Evans. the rest of the stuff is Miles the Innovator and Miles the Composer and Miles the Arranger. Duke Ellington wasn't really setting the world on fire with his piano playing, but his bands and his arrangements are perfect. Look at it from that angle.

Another Miles story:
Jack Dejohnette and Billy Hart both play on On the Corner. Billy told me that while they were recording, Miles came up to them (everyone holding their breath as he was walking over) "Know any fuckin James Brown beats?" and walked away. Black Satin was born of that little exchange.

I think what I'm really reacting against here is the way his name gets thrown around by indie rockers and the general public sometimes as coinage in the world of cool. It's just kind of hollow. Yeah, the Prestige stuff is great. In fact the records you speak of, I believe, what I was referring to by introducing jazz greats to world- wasn't one of those Coltrane's first recorded appearences (I seem to remember, though, that Coltrane's playing didn't stand out to much on that)?

I just think the worship of him is a bit disingenious sometimes.
In that sense, it's a little like Clapton. Except, of course, Clapton is infinitely LESS talented, but as an analogue, I think it works alright.

[joeysimms]

'Really the Blues' by Mezz Mezzrow is a fun read. Makes you want to shut the fuck up and get to it with style.