expanding pro tools?

Chris Adolf · Post by **Chris Adolf** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:54 pm

So in adding another 8 inputs to my pro-tools 002 system it seems that I could just get a cheap used 8 track DTRS ADAT machine like a tascam DA-88 and use it's lightpipe out for 8 more chanels of A/D conversion into the pro tools 002 light pipe in. Also the Mackie onyx seems like an option. I have a prejudice against that brand but I don't want to be closed minded. Ya know? I've also have looked at the focusrite octo-dude. (Seems cool?)
In an ideal world I would love to get 8 great mic-pre's and run them into 8 apogee roseta converters into PT or just get a HD PT system but like most of us money is an issue.
So lets rap about a used DTRS 8 track VS. the mackie onyx VS. the focusrite octo (or any other similarly priced solution) in regards to expanding a pro tools 002 system to 16 ins.

seaneldon · Post by **seaneldon** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:30 pm

don't count out the Presonus DigimaxLT which is in the same budget as the Mackie and Focusrite. decent pres (remember, you get what you pay for) and good a/d. the non-LT version upgrades both, but is of course more expensive.

it wouldn't be a bad idea to maybe save a LITTLE more money, or maybe sell something you don't use anymore, and spring for an RME OctaMic-D, which is their 8 channel preamp with lightpipe out. only $200 more than the mackie, and it's far superior. i've never done a side-by-side with the focusrite, mackie, or presonus units, but i HAVE had experience with all of them, and my experience with the RME was hands down the easiest one. neutral and crisp sounding preamps with lo-cut, phase, and phantom power, whereas the focusrite was rather muddy, the mackie was typical mackie, and the digimax starts to sound like a toy after a while. also, i can guarantee you that RME converters are a boatload better than the other options you're looking at.

something to think about. check it out for yourself.
RME's description and specs

Professor · Post by **Professor** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:31 pm

Well there are two things that won't work for you with the DTRS machines:
1- They don't have mic inputs or preamps, only line inputs, so you'll still need 8 mic preamps to use their DACs.
2- They don't have light-pipe connections. Tascam products use the 25-pin TDIF connection to move 8-channels of digital I/O.

You could potentially find a used Alesis ADAT 8-track machine which would fix problem #2, but not #1, and their conversion is notoriously bad anyway.

Your best bet is either the Onyx or the Focusrite and Focusrite has a history of making nice preamps while Mackie has a history of trying really hard and still coming up short. That said, I've never used either of those two devices, so I'll leave it to others to recommend one over the other.

-Jeremy

Mark Alan Miller · Post by **Mark Alan Miller** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:09 am

Some folks I've known use an Alesis AI3 interface for this job and say that it sound surprisingly good, considering it's of an era of coverters like the ADATs.
My feeling with the later generation of ADATs was that the A/D was usable for sure, but the D/A wasn't so hot in the top end (in particular.) This feeling was backed up by A-Bing some tracks recorded on an XT20, bounced via lightpipe to a Mackie HDR24/96, the two machines synced. The same track then coming off the D/A of the ADAT and the HDR were then matched (as close as humanly possible without test gear) in level and compared. It wasn't a double-blind (my own curiosity test more than anything) but the HDR's D/A killed, sounding way more open and clear.
My point is that if you're mainly looking for inputs, the AI3 might do the job, it's 1U high and quite available for small change (there's like 3 on eBay right now...)

Spark · Post by **Spark** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:24 am

I know your probably looking for something a little more high end but all the guys I know using the Behringer ADA-8000 seem to love it... Ive been looking for a 8 chan pre/adat box and after all they have said im not sure I can justify spending more if this box will do it..

stinkpot · Post by **stinkpot** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:47 am

Not trying to hyjack here.

I have a quick related question. Can you link multiple Digi 002R's together so you have 16 analog I/O?

Spark · Post by **Spark** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:54 am

stinkpot wrote:Not trying to hyjack here.

I have a quick related question. Can you link multiple Digi 002R's together so you have 16 analog I/O?

No dice.

r0ck1r0ck2 · Post by **r0ck1r0ck2** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:35 am

well there's the rme stuff too...
i think those nuendo interfaces (cheapo these days) can be used as 8 chan ad/da threw the adat channels..

mertmo · Post by **mertmo** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:43 pm

I have to say I really like the Behringer ADA 8000. I have two of them, one for input and one for output. For the money they are truly damn good sounding, no two ways about it. So if you have to go cheap, and you have some preamps to feed it, it is really not a bad way to go at all.

BTW, I used an ADAT for a while to get 8 more channels of input with my PTLE rig, but it was problematic, always putting in little glitches and holes in the audio during the middle of a good take. When transferring something actually recorded on an ADAT tape, however, it always works perfectly. But not so perfect as just a converter bridge. Worked great for 8 channels of D/A conversion on the output, tho.

Chris Adolf · Post by **Chris Adolf** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:15 pm

Professor wrote:Well there are two things that won't work for you with the DTRS machines:
1- They don't have mic inputs or preamps, only line inputs, so you'll still need 8 mic preamps to use their DACs.
2- They don't have light-pipe connections. Tascam products use the 25-pin TDIF connection to move 8-channels of digital I/O.

You could potentially find a used Alesis ADAT 8-track machine which would fix problem #2, but not #1, and their conversion is notoriously bad anyway.

Your best bet is either the Onyx or the Focusrite and Focusrite has a history of making nice preamps while Mackie has a history of trying really hard and still coming up short. That said, I've never used either of those two devices, so I'll leave it to others to recommend one over the other.

-Jeremy

OK my bad. But the ADAT machines for sure have opti out. Having no preamps aside, (I could use the console). Just using it as an 8 chanel A/D converter, how would that weigh against the other rack pre/AD dudes we have discussed?

Mark Alan Miller · Post by **Mark Alan Miller** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:15 am

If you're considering an ADAT as a A/D with lightpipe out, I gotta reiterate: and AI-3 only takes one rackspace, is designed for the A/D task specificaly, and will uses less power, too...

stinkpot · Post by **stinkpot** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:49 pm

The Spark wrote:
stinkpot wrote:Not trying to hyjack here.

I have a quick related question. Can you link multiple Digi 002R's together so you have 16 analog I/O?
No dice.

Well now that just blows hard! So it's either LE with 8 analog I/O with cobbled together digital ones or HD for a shit load of $$$. Me no likey those options.

Professor · Post by **Professor** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:55 pm

stinkpot wrote:
The Spark wrote:
stinkpot wrote:Not trying to hyjack here. I have a quick related question. Can you link multiple Digi 002R's together so you have 16 analog I/O?
No dice.
Well now that just blows hard! So it's either LE with 8 analog I/O with cobbled together digital ones or HD for a shit load of $$$. Me no likey those options.

Sadly that's the case, but in a certain way it makes sense. If there were 16 analog inputs, then the cost would be too high for it to be a viable mid-level format. 8 plus an outboard preamp works for folks who need up to 16-channels, and allows for the folks who don't. If you're tracking more than 16 simultaneous channels, then your studio, budget and mic collection are probably large enough to justify the expense of HD.
And really the big reason is that the step to HD is about more than I/O which is a fact often overlooked by folks talking about bigger or cheaper interfaces with other software. The move to HD also adds DSP chips to the machine to relieve the computer's CPU of a lot of stress. While an LE system or other 'native' software might yield a track count of 32 or more channels, the more you actually use, the more CPU power you expend, and that's at the expense of the ability to put plug-ins on the tracks for processing. Each HD Core or Process card is like adding another couple CPUs into your machine in terms of track count and plug-in power.

Though I suppose that a 'matching' Digidesign preamp to mate with and expand the 002 would certainly make sense.

-Jeremy

trodden · Post by **trodden** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:42 am

Mark Alan Miller wrote:If you're considering an ADAT as a A/D with lightpipe out, I gotta reiterate: and AI-3 only takes one rackspace, is designed for the A/D task specificaly, and will uses less power, too...

totes. I use the AI-3. Does the job. Granted my recordings are far from "pro" but it seems to do the job quite well. I can hardly blame the sounds of my mixes on my converter quality, i think.

Mark Alan Miller · Post by **Mark Alan Miller** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:40 am

trodden wrote:
Mark Alan Miller wrote:If you're considering an ADAT as a A/D with lightpipe out, I gotta reiterate: and AI-3 only takes one rackspace, is designed for the A/D task specificaly, and will uses less power, too...
totes. I use the AI-3. Does the job. Granted my recordings are far from "pro" but it seems to do the job quite well. I can hardly blame the sounds of my mixes on my converter quality, i think.

"totes." I like that. Took me a second to figure out what you meant. More coffee needed.
Yeah, the several people (one in particular) that I'm thinking of who use AI-3s all agree that the A/D side is quite good... I just keep pressing this as the solution here because it seems like an inexpensive, elegant, and non-space consuming option.

Message Board

expanding pro tools?

expanding pro tools?

Who is online