record contract

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

sensorarray
audio school graduate
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 11:51 am
Location: southern california
Contact:

record contract

Post by sensorarray » Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:39 am

hello,
our band is on the verge of signing to an indie label and they are talking about contracts. What is a standard/good contract? thanks for any information/help.

thanks,
derrick

User avatar
YOUR KONG
buyin' a studio
Posts: 872
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 6:57 am
Location: CT & NYC
Contact:

Post by YOUR KONG » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:20 pm

Congrats! Here a couple of good books:

All You Need to Know About the Music Business

I also used to have a big blue book of sample contracts that I picked up at Barnes & Noble. I can't find it now, so I maybe it's a figment of my imagination.

sensorarray
audio school graduate
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 11:51 am
Location: southern california
Contact:

Post by sensorarray » Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:00 pm

thank you very much for the suggestion and the "congratulations"...

i will most likely go to my local bookstore tonight and check out that book...
thanks again,
derrick

3db@1K
gettin' sounds
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:36 am
Location: LA

Re: record contract

Post by 3db@1K » Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:13 pm

sensorarray wrote:hello,
our band is on the verge of signing to an indie label and they are talking about contracts. What is a standard/good contract? thanks for any information/help.

thanks,
derrick
A good entertainment lawyer will do wonders. Hold on to your publishing as much as you can. Congrats.

Bedfordstop
studio intern
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:45 pm
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: record contract

Post by Bedfordstop » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:54 pm

it completely depends on about a million factors. Is it a big indie or a small indie? I have released music on indie labels and worked for them, so i can pretty much give you a look at both sides of the equation. Here are some considerations -

1: TALK to other bands on the label! What kind of feedback do they give? Is the label in any financial difficulties? Many are right now. Are they doing the promotional work that they promised? Are the owners / executives totally clueless about music? Do they "get" what you are going for?

2: Does the label have distribution? If so, which distributor? If you go to the local store, are their records in their? Are their records in the small but tastemaking indie shops? Are their records in Best Buy? Tower?

If the label has money, is well staffed, has distro, and understands your music, you should essentially sign any piece of shit they throw in front of you. UNLESS you have another credible bid. If you have multiple bids, obviously you can shop around and negotiate.

If you don't have multiple bids, here a few things to think about before signing the piece of shit contract they will probably throw in front of you -

****The label will most likely lose money on releasing your records. And even if they don't, they will likely be creative accoutants to cover their other losses. So you will probably never get paid any royalties. Out of the 3 labels i have worked for, there are only 3 bands that have EVER received a royalty check. EVER. So i wouldn't sweat so much royalty rate. What you should sweat is the advance, and the number of albums you are committed to releasing..

If you can, limit the number of albums your committed to. If you can get it down to one or two thats great. Then, if you are successful and you want to stay with the label, you can negotiate a favorable contract. And if they whole relationship is a bust, then you can dissolve it within a few years.

I suppose it depends on whether or not you view the relationship as a long term extended relationship, or a short term relationship that can bump you up a level so that you can sign up the ladder for your next contract.

Ultimately, at this point in the music industry, you make money on 1/ merch 2/ live shows 3/ licensing 4/ advance and thats about it. So one big factor is whether or not the label can get you on bigger bills with other bands on the label, or at the very least has good relationships with good booking agents.

Man there is so so so so much to think about - shoot me a message if you need to but thats all i can think of right now. Talk to a lawyer of course, but they are typically pieces of shit also and will suck your monetary resources at least as much as the labels.

Best of luck

stinkpot
pushin' record
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:18 pm

Re: record contract

Post by stinkpot » Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:30 pm

Bedfordstop wrote:If you can, limit the number of albums your committed to. If you can get it down to one or two thats great. Then, if you are successful and you want to stay with the label, you can negotiate a favorable contract. And if they whole relationship is a bust, then you can dissolve it within a few years.
Exactly. Or you might get lucky and get dropped and be able to work again quickly.

As for royalties, I got paid $67.00 once. Granted, I had no expenses while on the label, and got paid salary to cover my bills. That was enough to have some great experiances, dinners and learn a whole lot. Be very, very careful. A good lawyer is KEY!!

User avatar
r0ck1r0ck2
re-cappin' neve
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 1:55 pm
Location: Milwaukee!!
Contact:

Post by r0ck1r0ck2 » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:13 pm

well he's in full cynical rant mode here....but its a great read and tons of fun when you're slightly juiced up...

http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

really this ones just for fun...i don't wanna be a voice of doom+gloom..and plenty of my friends have escaped unscathed from this business..no scars or anything...

really its just a good read...

sensorarray
audio school graduate
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 11:51 am
Location: southern california
Contact:

Post by sensorarray » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:54 pm

thank you so much for all the replies. Thanks for the reminder on the Albini article...read that before a long time ago but read it again just to refresh my memory...

thanks again and please keep the advise coming if anyone else has anything to say.

peace,
derrick

Joel DuBay
audio school
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:48 pm
Contact:

Post by Joel DuBay » Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:10 pm

This is probably a thrilling and nervous time for you, and you certainly want to make the "right" decisions along the way and through the process. Frankly speaking, I am not going to shed much more light on the subject, but perhaps give you some advice based on my first record deal. My first "real" deal (after two very small indie deals) was in 1987 with Warner Bros. I signed a 6 record deal, but should have tried for a 1-2 record deal. However, I was really anxious and thought the world was about to open up and give me a great big hug..... not. A few things I should have considered and that you may want to think about are:

1. How hard is this label going to work to help make our music successful?
2. What is "success" to me?
3. Should I keep my publishing? (Frank Zappa said this was the only long term insurance policy he could identify, and I kept mine because of his experience. It has paid off for me by the way.
4. Will this label let me be free with my expression, or will there be compromises? If you suspect they might ask you to make music in a certain way, then really push for the 1 record deal.
5. A good, reputable lawyer with a great track record is worth the 300.00 per hour you are going to pay them. They are networked better, and are more efficient with their time (your money) as a result. They also have bigger muscles when needed.

Lastly, see what they have in mind for allowing you to tour successfully and comfortably. Aside from a label pushing your music and buying ads for you, touring repeatedly is the best way to create a buzz, audience, client base for your offerings. And, if you are going to be touring, make sure you can do so without suffering too much.
Ask the record company how they plan to help you become successful, and see how they respond. If you have good instincts, (and I am pretty sure your do), you'll be able to read between the lines, and know better what to expect long term.
And, above all else, enjoy this time to its fullest. It can be an amazing journey.

The very best of luck to you and your band,
Joel DuBay
www.readyacoustics.com
Bass Traps and Acoustic Treatments

User avatar
soundguy
ghost haunting audio students
Posts: 3182
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 12:50 pm
Location: NYC
Contact:

Post by soundguy » Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:00 pm

a good contract is often one that is not standard. A contract can have the potential to offer protection based upon what is written in it, but it is the stuff that is not written in it which will pull the teeth out of your skull and you always want to avoid having a third party make a judgement about what should happen in regards to the things that were not written down and agreed upon.

go get a lawyer, the internet is for porn.

dave
http://www.glideonfade.com
one hundred percent discrete transistor recording with style and care.

User avatar
r0ck1r0ck2
re-cappin' neve
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 1:55 pm
Location: Milwaukee!!
Contact:

Post by r0ck1r0ck2 » Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:05 pm

go get a lawyer, the internet is for porn.
anyone wanna recommend this chap a decent lawyer...
where else besides pornoland would you find one..
yellow pages?
well it is california...
i'm sure there are 2 entertainment lawyers in wisconsin..maybe 3

User avatar
AnalogElectric
suffering 'studio suck'
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 12:36 pm
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Contact:

Post by AnalogElectric » Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:27 pm

Yes, entertainment lawyer for sure.

Yellow Pages works just for starters. I'd probably avoid the internet when looking for representation. Not unless they have a webpage link from a hardcopy Yellow Pages ad, just to get a little more info.

The lawyer I had for my studio back in the day is THE law firm that handles pretty much "who's who" in Minneapolis. They even took me out for lunch to discuss what my intentions were, what I'd need, and what they could do for me (free of charge and they paid for my meal). Lawyers can be no fun to deal with but I was turned to my entertainment lawyer thru other people the firm represented.

Like others said, it would be best to talk with other bands on the label in regards to how they approached it and how they're doing today with the deal.

Now if the band isn't considered a small business there'd have to be someone in the band that takes on the responsibility for all the money, taxes, and general business dealings under their own personal earning income.

Anyways, there are many different ways you and the band can go about it if you want everything to be rock-solid (PUN). It would be best to talk with an entertainment lawyer at some point before you sign anything... that's what they're there for.

A little studying up with books about the subject help before talking to a lawyer. Having a list of questions helps cut down a meeting, plus you won't feel so swamped by jargon and options.

A retainer for me was $250 and I didn't go over that amount... but we're talking early 1997 or so, I'm sure things adjust over the years, also with location and reputation.

Good luck,
-- Adam Lazlo
AnalogElectric Recording
Gilbert, Arizona USA
http://www.analogelectric.com
http://www.myspace.com/adamlazlo

sensorarray
audio school graduate
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 11:51 am
Location: southern california
Contact:

Post by sensorarray » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:50 pm

i am always impressed by the body of knowledge and maturity on this board (probably why i come here for answers) and can't be more thankful.

Thanks to everyone for the support and the great advise. Please if anyone has anything else to add, feel free.

I looked up that book and it actually makes the whole music business pretty frightening. He doesn't touch upon the "indie" side of things much but it's great info on how the process works and what to avoid and bring up.

thanks again,
derrick

xonlocust
tinnitus
Posts: 1228
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 3:38 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Post by xonlocust » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:50 pm

bedford's observations are very much in line with what i've experienced in the indie/punk scene.

be clear about what's important to you. there are a good number of labels who still operate on the 50/50 touch & go model. (t&g, dischord, thick, french kiss, drag city etc) so it's not unheard of. now... as mentioned above, whether you ever see that money or creative accounting keeps it such t hat you just barely owe the label... i don't think i can name any of my friends bands on indies have ever recieved royalites.

if you're posting on here, you're clearly into recording. define clearly what your goals are in the recording process. some labels are very hands off (i like) and others are very hands on (some people like...). are you comfortable with the label head acting as producer for your band? are you willing to record with whomever/wherever they want you to based on thier financials or are they going to give you a budget figure which you are to decide how to use. (don't outrule exceeding your label budget to supplement yourselves to make the record you want, myself and many friends have done this).

i guess knowing what you want and adding that to the contract is what's important. you can modify what they present to you initially. they clearly like your band. while you don't wanna be royal pains in the asses, you certainly are in SOME position of power.

oh yeah, just hang with the label people. are they cool? not in the scenester way, but do you feel comfortable around them or not? you're going to be spending LOTS of time working with that person over the next few years.

also, for smaller labels i actually think one/two man operations are the best. if the label is big enough for your relationship to be based on an A&R guy, it's more than likely that person will be jumping ship before your band can.

also ask about tour support. what each parties expectations are of touring in support of the record, what they will do in press etc. find out if they will assist in securing booking agents/publicty. these days a good booking agent is more valuable than a label.

you know, all this bullshit can really be summed up with:

a) talk to the other bands on the label and
b) hang out with the main label person
c) what does your gut say now?

wait, CONGRATS. it's a very exciting time for you guys. enjoy it.

User avatar
r0ck1r0ck2
re-cappin' neve
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 1:55 pm
Location: Milwaukee!!
Contact:

Post by r0ck1r0ck2 » Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:05 pm

i'm sure the hardest thing is the poker face....lawyers always have a pokerface...

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 54 guests