Producer/engineer realtions unattended mixes

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keysmia
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Producer/engineer realtions unattended mixes

Post by keysmia » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:34 am

How do you handle a situation like this. I have my own production company and I subcontract mixing duties to engineers for a few reasons. I like to have another set of ears and I know more about arrangeing and producing than engineering. I want the right to be there for a mix as I know what i am looking for in terms of sound and It is my project. I am not intrusive nor do I look over the persons shoulder but i want to be there when I can. Depending on the project and the person i sometimes have just sent it out but I still want the right to be there. Is this asking too much ?

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Post by cgarges » Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:37 pm

I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all. In fact, when I mix something, I pretty much always want someone from the band there. If there's an outside producer on the project I DEFINITELY want them there, if for no other reason than to sign off on the mixes. I generally enjoy having someone there who was a part of the recording process and understands more about the scope of the project than I do. I find that they usually point out something that I didn't notice or will make a suggestion that I hadn't thought of. If it happens once in an entie project, it was worth having them there. I can't think of a project I've ever done where it didn't happen more than once.

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Post by soundguy » Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:56 pm

edited for clarity.
Last edited by soundguy on Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AnalogElectric
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Re: Producer/engineer realtions unattended mixes

Post by AnalogElectric » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:07 pm

keysmia wrote:How do you handle a situation like this. I have my own production company and I subcontract mixing duties to engineers for a few reasons. I like to have another set of ears and I know more about arrangeing and producing than engineering. I want the right to be there for a mix as I know what i am looking for in terms of sound and It is my project. I am not intrusive nor do I look over the persons shoulder but i want to be there when I can. Depending on the project and the person i sometimes have just sent it out but I still want the right to be there. Is this asking too much ?
Are you tracking at all, or are you a producer, or an executive producer?

Is it where your A&R finds a band (or the band comes to you) then you find the right people to take care of things regarding the right producer, studio, engineer, etc?

If that's the case then yes, you have the final say on how it should be. Your company is paying and setting up the whole deal... you're the final person to give it the thumbs up or thumbs down.

Let me fabricate a story outline on what I think you're saying:
Let's call the Executive Producers - Sorny Records
Let's call the band - Example
Let's call the Producer - John Doe
Let's call the Engineer - Jane Doe

Sorny Records likes the band Example. Sorny Records asks Example to make a list of producers they'd like to work with. Sorny Records picks a name from that list they know to be creditable or presents a short-list of people (or just one person) they think will work well with Example.

Example goes with Producer John Doe. John Doe then hires the engineer he likes to work with, Jane Doe. John Doe then hires the studio he want's to work at.

From there it's up to John Doe because Sorny Records agreed that John Doe can deliver the goods.

Now, if John Doe presents the final results to Sorny Records and it falls short then either Sorny Records requests that it be re-mixed by someone else, the same John Doe/Jane Doe combo, or fire John Doe and start the project from scratch with a different producer.

--end story.

So I'm wondering what your role is. Are you Sorny Records, John Doe, or are you in-between?

If you have production chops I'd hate to have you come in during mixing only. Most involved production involves pre-production, production, and post-production.

A Producer should be there from the very beginning, actually help the band mold the songs and get the best out of what they have.

A Producer should have engineering knowledge or at least know the jargon for the engineer to do what you want for the band. The Producer is the voice of the band, ultimately. You're the one that keeps everything together.

So yes, if you don't have your engineering chops up to par the best way to learn is to be there from beginning to end while asking as well as telling the engineer what you'd like to hear. If you say the wrong thing, so be it, that's how you learn and become a better producer.

You're trying to put out the best possible product, right? So you'll have to do whatever is necessary in order to make that possible.

If you have the confidence of the band then I'd suggest you live up to that confidence bestowed upon you.

You should look over the engineer's shoulder. Someone hired as "engineer only" should expect their role as such.

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Post by @?,*???&? » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:23 pm

Not much to add to this other than 80% to 90% of the time I am mixing alone. When a mix gets close, I can use band input. By that time, I've addressed so much that the band or artist would not have ever dealt with, it's almost done anyhow. No big deal.

Anybody ever do a mix and get no tangible comments from the band?

This happens to me alot too. Exceeding the need I call it. I'd like to work with people who can push me and make my work better, but I just can't seem to leave things unfinished sounding enough.

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Post by AnalogElectric » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:40 pm

Jeff Robinson wrote:Not much to add to this other than 80% to 90% of the time I am mixing alone. When a mix gets close, I can use band input. By that time, I've addressed so much that the band or artist would not have ever dealt with, it's almost done anyhow. No big deal.

Anybody ever do a mix and get no tangible comments from the band?

This happens to me alot too. Exceeding the need I call it. I'd like to work with people who can push me and make my work better, but I just can't seem to leave things unfinished sounding enough.
Yup, I've done mixes with no input other than "make it sound good" and then they take off. But of course I'll hear thru the grapevine that at least one person isn't happy with it... even though I told them they could stick around to A/B.

Most of the time it's where they're in the lounge playing video games or watching movies while I mix in the control room. I'll get the song we all agree would be a great primer and go off that. I still want the band around for the other songs but there have been those rare times where they just leave it in my hands cuz, as they'll state, "It's one-thousand times better than what we expected... we trust you".

Some of the time that's okay but I can be an even worst critic than the band. It's always better to have input as I go along... when I ask for input.

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Post by river » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:16 pm

I don't see a lot of point in having a client on the couch for mixing up front, because it's pretty tedious in the beginning dialing in sounds and so on...but I certainly encourage their feedback once I have initial mixes put together and prefer them there from that point for recalls. I also encourage a producer to give me a touchstone up front of what they're looking for, by way of another mix of something similar. It's nice to have a compass bearing :wink:
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Post by cgarges » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:59 pm

On stuff where I'm working a song-a-day type schedule, yeah, I'll probably have the band come in later than me. But oftentimes, I'm working with a band that's on a much tighter budget that might require that we do three songs in a day or six songs in a day or whatever. In those cases, it's silly to continually send the guys out for lunch while I tweak. I guess in those cases, though, not a lot's changing from song-to-song. Anybody else have thoughts on those kinds of situations?

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You have the right

Post by knobtwirler » Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:19 pm

If you're a producer the mixer should expect that you expect to be there for the mix. Sometimes this is physically impossible for various reasons, but when it is, as long as both of you can respect each other's workflow(yes you have a workflow as a producer on the couch too) this should be a harmonious situation, not an imposing or awkward one.
I try to make it clear that for the firs 2-3 hours I will need as little input or distraction as possible while I tear through every track to build the mix, sometimes even suggesting a meal or a walk outside and leaving a cell phone # so i can call when I'm ready for them. When multiple people are involved like band members or production teams, I will speak out and tell them when they are detracting from my focus on the mix. If you are there and you only make one or two comments that save you from not liking the mix it's worth it.

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Post by soundguy » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:46 am

edited for clarity.
Last edited by soundguy on Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by cgarges » Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:50 am

some dude wrote:There are two different types of mixes: the one you sit and mix the song the other you just get the tracks on your format (multitrack, pocket calculator, whatever) onto their format (two track tape, CD, pocket calculator file) in some sensible fashion that hopefully makes someone tap their foot. If bands would come to terms with that reality and go into the session with that in mind, in case b, they'd have a much better final product I think if the tracking engineer knew the material had to be a six song a day mix.

Some of the most awesome records of all time have been spit out like that, so you hardly need to labor for hours on a mix BUT, if you know you only have an hour to mix, there's lots to do in tracking to set your self up for a smooth flowing mixdown, which IMO is all that you can hope for in those situations. Things turn into a cluster fuck when you have six hours of tweaking to squeeze into one hour because someone ran out of money or something.
Agreed 100%.

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Last edited by cgarges on Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by soundguy » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:36 pm

edited for clarity.
Last edited by soundguy on Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mixing

Post by xpulsar » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:41 pm

I've done most of my mixing with no members of the band there or Producers present. I went this direction after many times having the band turn a song mix from one day into 3 days. Certain members of the band kept taking the mix in different directions and no one could commit to the mix. I wanted to be done with it but there was so much automation that needed to be done and so many tracks ,overkill really. we'll anyway long story short.I ended up telling the band that I could not have them around and that I would send them MP3's and would do only one recall to limit them to commiting to the mix in a timely manner. They where not paying me enough to deal with their BS. Another reason to not "Cut Deals " anymore.

So Now i prefer to mix alone and send Mp3's .This works well and allows me to get way more done. It also helps when you have out of state clients and they don't have to flt in to attend the mix session.

Collin

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Post by bgiles117 » Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:32 am

Must be a Detroit thing. LOL I mix the same way. LOL

when I get to 80% then they can show up or I send MP3's

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