Paiste Formula 602 cymbals

[cgarges]

They're not supposed to be 602 reissues, but has anyone tried the Paiste Traditionnal series cymbals?

I own a few of those, too. They're very cool, but definitely their own thing. Not so much the "old K copy" that a lot of the Bosphorus and Istanbul cymbals that I've head are. They're very trashy and very musical cymbals.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[digitaldrummer]

I bought one of the 18" Traditional crashes. It was very nice. Reminded me of the 18" K Custom Dark crash (which I also have) but it still had that Paiste sound (which I hear as more "shimmer" on top). It was very close to my K though, and since I had a few other sizes of K Custom Darks already, and it didn't mesh as well with them, we parted ways... I toyed with the idea of accumulating a few more of the Paiste Traditionals, but then I regained control...

and yeah, Cymbalholics is cool, but I can only support one habit at a time and have enough cymbals for the meantime...

Mike

[bowling-name]

Well, Paiste continues to move forward in terms of the processes they use to produce most of their cymbals. What this means is that there is little chance a "reissue" will be exactly like any of the previous incarnations of the 602 line. The Giant Beat reissues for example, while quite nice, apparantly are not made with the same techniques and yield a different sound than the cymbal line they were modeled on. It will likely be the same case if and when 602s are reissued. They have apparantly made some 602ish reissue prototypes in the last couple of years, sent out for endorsers to play. This suggests they are at least considering reviving the 602 line in some shape or form.

For more (credible) rumors see:
http://www.cymbalholic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3785

[Jeremy Garber]

I never really liked Paiste cymbals to be honest. All of mine are Zildjian/Sabian. My hi hats are these old Zildians from the 60s or so. They are so thick they could be used as small rides. I love the big crunch of them.

[Dave-H]

While I like the higher end Paiste's I have played Zildjians for 35 years & see no reason to change. Today , I use mostly A Custom crash cymbals. From 10" - 20". I have a old 20" Z ride & a 19" Dark K that I love. I really work at getting cymbals that mesh together well & the ones I have now just fit the bill.
I have bought several of my cymbals at pawn shops. I figure if they weren't cracked by the first owner , they will hold up for me. Also as the cymbal ages the sound will change. Ie Zildjian sell some lines "pre aged"
I like to just get the real aged plates.
The regular A line cymbals seem much thicker than they were in the 60's & 70's. That is why I use the A Customs now, they are thinner.

Dave H.

[cgarges]

For more (credible) rumors see:
http://www.cymbalholic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3785

Interesting.

I'd love to see them come back. Anything close to them would be cool, so long as they really were close. And something relatively thin without being terribly dark. That would rule. Paiste would certainly make more money off of me than they have in the last few years.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Paul Fury 161]

Hi all
Just to clarify, Paiste cymbals are actually made inthesame way as they always were, only the line has been updated with new machines, but the physical process remains the same. I have played the giant beat reissues, nothing wrong with them, in fact I bet with a year of playing in they'll be extremely similar to old ones. 602 was dropped because it was toop expensive to make, 2002/giant beat used B8 alloy (which is quite cheap - sabian do a budget range called B8 with that alloy), 602 used B20 alloy (which give or take a few "magic ingredients" is what Zildjian and Sabian use.). 602 was replaced essentially by Signature, which uses Paiste's secret Signature alloy,they don't tell what's in it.Traditional is a different range, intended to compete with old K/hand hammered type stuff that has more layers to the sound, less of the focussed 2002/signature type thing. But the big point everybody's not mentioned is that Paiste cybals are NOT cast cymbals, unlike Zildjian, Sabian, Bosphorus, Istanbul, Turkish,UFIP etc, they HAVE ALWAYS been made by machine and extruded, making them far more consistent.

I play old zildjian "A", modern-ish "K", Paiste 2002 crashes, 602 Sound edge hats, and some Istanbul - it's all good.

Sorry if this is old ground. I'd like them to reissue 602, wouldn't put it past Paiste, i'm sure that they'd be great.

As an aside, if you like old "A" or"K", or even new Zildjian, Istanbul does loads of ranges that are great, and very cheap for hand hammered cymbals.Bosphorus are good too, but seem to generally voice their stuff a bit dry and heavy for what they're meant to be in my opinion.I like new Stanton Moore range though...;-p

Take it easy yallz,

Paul Fury 161

P.S. anybody got any spare Rogers beavertail lugs/drums with those lugs on?PM me!

[percussion boy]

I'd love to see them come back. Anything close to them would be cool, so long as they really were close.

Would it, though? I remember selling a 2002 black label China in a poverty-stricken moment, then ordering a (red label? the later version) 2002 of the same type and being completely disgusted. Since Paistes know their owners, my original cymbal appeared in the store's used bin at the same time, and I was able to swap to get my baby back.

I have another, equally rambling, story about how I got my 602 crash, but I'll spare you . . .

[drumsound]

My drum teacher in High School had 602s. They are the only Paiste cymbals I ever thought were really cool. The ride had a really cool definition as I remember. The hats sounded great for jazz 'chick.' Of course that was like 300 years ago that I last heard them. The Traditionals are neat, but kind of like a Line 6 is to a real amp. I'd rather play without cymbals than play 2002s!

[cgarges]

But the big point everybody's not mentioned is that Paiste cybals are NOT cast cymbals, unlike Zildjian, Sabian, Bosphorus, Istanbul, Turkish,UFIP etc, they HAVE ALWAYS been made by machine and extruded, making them far more consistent.

Technically, the hammering is done by human controlling a machine controlling the hammering, to ensure more consistency and deter worker fatigue. I like this approach because it does exactly that without resorting to some big robot stamping out thousands of cymbals.

As an aside, if you like old "A" or"K", or even new Zildjian, Istanbul does loads of ranges that are great, and very cheap for hand hammered cymbals.

My biggest issue with those is that none of them are thin enough or quiet enough. A lot of those cymbals sound really great, but what I really love about my old Ks (and a few other weird old cymbals I have) is that they're quiet.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[cgarges]

I'd love to see them come back. Anything close to them would be cool, so long as they really were close.

Would it, though? I remember selling a 2002 black label China in a poverty-stricken moment, then ordering a (red label? the later version) 2002 of the same type and being completely disgusted. Since Paistes know their owners, my original cymbal appeared in the store's used bin at the same time, and I was able to swap to get my baby back.

Well, there were four different variations on the actual 602 line of which I'm aware. They're all cool, the middle two and the last one being coolest. I'm sure if Paiste re-issues them, someone's gonna complain about them. Hell, I may be one of those people! But if they get the cymbals in the ball park of one of the last three variations, I'll be happy.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[cgarges]

The Traditionals are neat, but kind of like a Line 6 is to a real amp.

Oh man, do I disagree. If you buy a Traditional expecting to get an old K, you're being naive. But they are very unique, musical, and useful cymbals. Some are definitely cooler than others, but as a line, they're pretty hip.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Paul Fury 161]

Cgarges, it's a fair point regarding machine hammering, but that wasn't what I meant. Zildjian and sabian are all machine hammered also (except Sabian HH and vault lines). The differencewith Paiste andall the others isthat the cymbal blanks are not cast - theyare a fundamentally different thing, and that goes for all Paiste ranges. In my experience, most Paiste cymbals are generally less "3D" and have less layers to the sound, BUT are more distinct and focussed. I play 2002 and 602,love 'em. Love modern "K"' crashes as well, reckon they're well up there for most applications. I knoiw what you mean about Istanbul/Bosphorus etc, they're good, but different to real turkish K's. To be honest, though, I feel thesame way about the Zildjian Constantinople and A+C ranges, i've played some real a+c hats that were closer to my 60's A new beats
than the reissues - not that the reissues aren't cool in their own way.

Traditionals are ace btw, ask Steve Jordan ;-p just expensive!

take it easy yallz,

Paul Fury 161

[Dave-H]

Most of the Pastie lines are made of B-8 sheet bronze & Zildjian & Sabian higher lines are made of cast B-20 bronze. B20's have a higher tin content & also trace amounts of silver in the mix. Sabian B8lines are just that B8 sheet bronze plates. Zildjian also makes some B8 cymbals. The b8 cymbals are usually a little brighter sounding & because there is less labor in making B-8 cymbals , they are usually lower cost.

Dave H.

[cgarges]

Most of the Pastie lines are made of B-8 sheet bronze

Except the Signature, Traditional, Dark Energy, Sound Formula, 602, and Sound Creation lines. The 602s and SOund Creations were made of B20. The others are a proprietary formula.

For what it's worth, I own a non-cast cymbal made in Germany in the 60s that sounds more like an old K than most new K-like hand hammered and cast cymbals. It's certainly an oddity.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC