Is Recording School a "must have gone to" for inte

[knobtwirler]

I would only hire folks that could demonstrate a real strong foundation in basic technique and pracitce, because I would want my sessions to run efficiently enough that I could maximize the profits. I love teaching people about recording, but if I were on a normal clock and it were cutting into my pay, then I wouldn't want to be showing somme newbie how to setup an ORTF pair in front of the piano. And I couldn't imagine a studio owner telling a free-lance or session engineer that he isn't getting a trained assistant but rather an untrained intern that he is supposed to train?!?! That's about the most fucked up thing I've heard in a while. Is that really how the studio owner is running his business? Does he want to drive away the paying clients?-Jeremy

Thanks for setting my head straight. Ineeded objective comparisons and now I see that it is a sleazeball setup. Somehow the educational forum is the ideal and it all gets chipped away in the real world in some places like this one(the studio in question) but it should not be tolerated. The manager is in my mind is clearly driving potential clients away, and that's basically what you do when you hire interns that can't exhibit proper skills, pretend they are assistants sometimes, and entertain the idea that a session will go smoothly without an assistant because you(the manager) don't understand what it's like to keep a session under control. Oh and thanks for the IRS info.

[mpedrummer]

As a graduate of one of the major programs (Berklee) - I vote that you go the route of education, but for a different reason than you might think...

I eventually decided that being someone else's peon was not for me. For one thing, I couldn't work for free (though, that was ironically due to needing to pay off my loans for Berklee!) and for another thing, I'm just not too good at being subservient. I prefer working with people, not having to go to Starbucks 5 times because the starlet wanted a mocha-buttachino-grande-vented-whatever the fuck.

Anyway, I love music, I love recording, I love producing. I also love eating, paying my rent, and not having to explain to my wife why the phones were turned off. Having a college degree opened MANY doors for me. I now work at a "real job" as a web programmer, 40 hours a week of PHP and MySQL. I'm still involved in music (sometimes less than I like) but it's my terms. Perhaps that just makes me a self-centered prick, but I don't think I am.

I agree with the poster that mentioned that sometimes the people coming out of these schools don't know their ass from a U67. Probably 50% of Berklee was there because mommy and daddy were paying to send them to rockstar school. Having been there, I can say that at Berklee, at least, if you don't leave there with a huge knowledge of how recording actually works, and how to run a session, then you were either stoned too much, or you shouldn't be in the business in the first place.

One other issue, potentially a downside, but whatever...Berklee does very little to train you to be an assistant, class-wise. It's more geared toward engineering or 2nd engineering skills, along with production classes. I had a good deal of experience and training as an assistant because I worked for the studio office...apart from having to do the cleaning/fixing, we were also picked first for assisting/seconding whenever visiting artists came through. Working with Chuck Ainley, Eddie Kramer, Bob Clearmountain, etc taught me just as much as the actual classes did. It's also when I realized that there's really only two types of people: you're either a dick or you aren't. Working with a few dicks who seemed to feel that an assistant's place was to provide an outlet for their frustrations is what really led me to the realization that I'd rather engineer small-time projects that I have valued input for, rather than being treated like shit.

Anyway, my two cents turned into a dime here...sorry for the blabbing.

MPEDrummer

[Professor]

Yeah, lots of folks don't know about the IRS and other implications.
They actually run a lot deeper. For example - if a studio does have an intern providing services to them for little or no pay, then that studio is supposed to report that as income for their business and pay appropriate federal income taxes. That's why "volunteerism" is so intrinsically linked to not-for-profit corporation status. The business legally needs to list the employee in their paperwork and pay social security, workman's comp, and other typical state and federal fees, even if the employee is working for no income. And yes, the key one is that to work for no "financial" income, the employee must be compensated with some kind of formal educational certification - like internship credit at school, or tradesman licensing like an electrician, plumber or other apprenticed trade might receive.
Of course, if any intern complains, then he is tossed out the door the studio picks the next guy in the line of hundreds of willing slaves waiting outside for their 'chance to learn'.
And they won't learn to be engineers by fetching coffee or scrubbing toilets.

One other issue, potentially a downside, but whatever...Berklee does very little to train you to be an assistant, class-wise. It's more geared toward engineering or 2nd engineering skills, along with production classes. I had a good deal of experience and training as an assistant because I worked for the studio office...apart from having to do the cleaning/fixing, we were also picked first for assisting/seconding whenever visiting artists came through.

You know, I've been curious about that for a while now, but I've never really wanted to bring it up because anytime education is mentioned it tends to devolve into the 'who needs it' debate.
But I've noticed that lots of programs focus really intensively on Music Production and not so much on basic engineering as a second or even a first engineer, and certainly very little time is spent on how to be a good second, a good studio manager or a good technician.
I mean, I guess in fairness everyone that goes to film school is there to learn to be a director, and nobody 'trains' to be a best boy or a grip or a caterer, they just end up with that job later.
Or consider Broadcast Journalism where everyone is studying to be a TV News anchor, and there is a huge demand in that market for qualified engineering staff.
So I'm not surprised that folks that come out of Berklee, especially the ones who are there because daddy is paying for rock-star school, are going to comme out with huge egos about their place as 1st engineers and/or producers, while not knowing the difference between normalled, non-normalled, and half-normalled patchbays. But then I'd be very surprised to see someone like that come out of the BSEE program at Univ. of Miami. Luckily, the program at CU-Denver was setup where students did have access to the various studios right away, but there was always a hierarchy of 1st Engineer, 2nd, and assistant on the various sessions, and the faculty told the students to assist the upper classmen before trying to run their own sessions. Indeed, I seem to recal someone saying that at Miami, the students are not allowed to be lead engineers until senior year. But then I saw that Berklee's program is so heavily geared towards the creative, artistic and "superior" realm of being a producer, and I really did wonder about that.

-Jeremy

[mpedrummer]

That heirarchy certainly exists at Berklee, don't get me wrong. My point was more that at Berklee, you get out what you put in. I took 2 semesters of "Audio Tech", which is essentially electrical fundamentals, such as how a dual-capsule mic actually produces the multiple polar patterns and so forth. These two classes were required, so many folks took more of the attitude of "let's get through this" instead of actually getting the valuable aspects of the classes. Additionally, I took advanced acoustics and a 3rd semester of "tech" classes, Technical Characteristics of Audio Systems, which was taught by the guy in charge of fixing all of the studio equipment.

While at Berklee, I spent 40hrs a week in classes, 20 a week working for/in the studios, and probably an additional 30-40 per week in the studios in my spare time. I got an education from Berklee that I think more than adequately prepared me to work in any studio, analog or digital.

But the classes themselves didn't always tech assisting...I mean, what idiot would pay $30k per year to be taught how to get coffee? The class projects certainly did, however...as a first year student, you'd be required to assist older students on their projects, and many people would continue doing this to get as much studio time as possible. For your second and final years, you'd pair up as either a producer or engineer, depending on the classes you were in. You senior production project required producing a 3-song demo, and your senior engineering project required recording and mixing one. It was fairly realistic - you had just 24 hours of studio time for the whole thing. It wasn't a solid 24 hours or anything, though, because after each session you'd have class review with the teachers and so forth.

I think schools like Berklee offer a valuable service, but they don't force you to learn anything. If you're an intern and aren't picking things up, your ass is fired. At school, they'd be glad to take your money while you take the classes again and again.

I dunno, I seem to be rambling again...

MPEDrummer

[knobtwirler]

Berklee does very little to train you to be an assistant, class-wise. It's more geared toward engineering or 2nd engineering skills,

but there was always a hierarchy of 1st Engineer, 2nd, and assistant on the various sessions,

Hold on, you guyus are confusing me here...The 2nd IS the assistant in my experience, unless you are talking about a big session that needs TWO assistants, in which case I would understand your descriptions.

[mpedrummer]

1st Engineer = the guy who gets credit under "Engineered By:"

2nd Engineer = usually for bigger studios, an advanced assistant who will know the ins and outs of the board, automation system, and recording medium of choice, as well as all the other equipment in the studio. Basically, a manual with feet. Often doubles as the assistant when necessary. Also, in my experience, often does most of the work while the 1st engineer tells everyone else how famous he is.

Assistant = not responsible for an audio decisions. Sets up mics, documents placement, take sheets, gets coffee, generally around to help keep everyone happy.

MPEDrummer

[knobtwirler]

Every session I've been on the 2nd engineer did all the work and got the coffee, set up the mics, and all that...hmmm....

[digital eagle audio]

damn, prof, now i don't know what to think. looks like i'm in a shitty spot, though. i currently have access to radar, distressors, dbx's, tube mic's, etc, plus some really talented and generous people who are usually thrilled to show me new things, and let me try whatever i want when nobody else is using a room.
but on the other hand, yeah, i'm pretty sick of making coffee and doing other people's transfers for free. looks like i've got some thinking to do. man, i hate thinking.

[mpedrummer]

Every session I've been on the 2nd engineer did all the work and got the coffee, set up the mics, and all that...hmmm....

Yeah, it's one of those lines that tends to be blurry and constantly moving. Kinda like defining the difference between an involved producer and a co-writer of the song.

In my experience, a "second engineer" gets a LOT more respect and is more likely to actually be paid.

MPEDrummer

[knobtwirler]

I could see how an intern might not ge paid, but 2nds and asses should always be paid.

[digital eagle audio]

does anyone have any experience with the Recording Workshop?
they sent me some material, and I want to know if they are a decent institution.
i would really appreciate any input!
http://www.recw.com