YOUR PIX: Drum Microphone Placement

[caz]

Dearest TapeOppers,

Do you wanna start up a thread of photographs depicting the mic arrays you are currently using to capture your drum sounds? I do...thus, here I go:

http://pascalstudio.blogspot.com/2006/01/you-are-way-too-old-for-me.html

**ABOVE: Beyer m201 on snare, AT4047 on hi-tom, AKG D112 on beater-side of kick


**BELOW: Our drummer's ghostly arms, Oktava Mk219 on lo-tom, AT4050 on med-tom, AT4047 on hi-tom, AKG C1000s on hi-hat

http://pascalstudio.blogspot.com/2006/01/dont-let-me-down.html

WHAT WE DON'T SEE: Front-of-kick tunnel made with bass drum shell (no skins) and a hefty, plaid sleeping bag...a CAD m179 using wide cardioid is placed about 2 inches from the front of the kick skin (no holes), Oktava MC012s about 5 to 6 feet back and 10 feet up.

Let's see what your current setup looks like...

{csmr}

**SORRY. I GUESS MY PHOTO LINKS WEREN'T WORKING SO ABOVE I HAVE LINKS TO OUR STUDIO BLOG.
_________________
//Casimer Pascal

[centurymantra]

Yeah..this is something I would enjoy seeing. Hopefully there's some folks out there who feel motivated and/or generous enough to take the time and post some pics.

BTW...your pics don't show up in the message you posted.

[caz]

Until I can figure out how to correctly link to my pics I am offering direct links to out studio blog which has the same photographs...

{csmr}
_________________
//Casimer Pascal

[starwa12s]

Also, I think it might be a good idea to provide a sound clip of how the layouts sound.
_________________
I am self taught so give me a god damn break.

[thethingwiththestuff]

these are from my band's session this summer.....

http://www.doctorandphilip.com/recording.html

the general approach was just distant stereo pair of SM81's, Oktava 319 modded into omni overhead/over shoulder, a d112 on the kick, and a 57 on the snare shell. i was limited on track count, and wanted bleed for days. i sure as hell got it....

here's one sound clip: http://www.doctorandphilip.com/MeditationOnLarry.mp3
i've made the entire mix of this a lot smaller, added some attack to the drums, tightened the vocals, beefed up the acoustic and lead guitars, and flipped the polarity of the distorted upright since i printed this mix.
_________________
http://arcinround.bandcamp.com
http://mricchini.wordpress.com

[InvalidInk]

Great Thread! I'll post some pics when I get off work.
_________________
My musical endeavors!

http://www.dyspepsidisc.com/
www.myspace.com/stationaryodyssey
www.myspace.com/brettsiler

[bniesz]

here's mine:
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=29534
_________________
http://www.osaurus.net
http://www.ultrastudio.com
http://www.woxy.com

[cgarges]

Here's some shots from Saturday's session on which I played drums. The artist is a very Suzanne Vega-esque piano player/singer. The band (keys, guitar, bass, drums) went for everything live, vocals included. Some stuff will be recut, some overdubs will be added, but for the most part, what was played then is the basis for the record. The band had never played together with this singer, who usually plays duo gigs with the guitarist, so arrangements were worked out on the spot. Two songs were tracked with a click. We got into four tunes on Saturday.

Drum sounds switched a lot from tune to tune, but the mics and signal path basically stayed the same with a few exceptions. The snare drums and cymbals switched pretty much from song-to-song.


Here's the basic kit layout. You can get an idea of the positioning of the overheads, which were Beyer M160s. Those went through a couple of Sytek preamps and the mics were equidistant from the center of the snare drum. I hadn't gotten to use a pair of 160s as overheads in a few years and I LOVED it for this stuff. There's a Sennheiser MD421 over the kick drum and kind of pointed inward towards the snare drum. This mic moved around a bit from song to song and may get used during the mix or not. It provides a good mono representation of the kit from close-in, which can provide a good source for things in the "funny noises" department. It went through a Daking 52270 preamp with a touch of EQ added. For one song, this mic also went through an Altec 1612A compressor. For another, it was intended to be routed through a SansAmp, but a patching mistake led to a more interesting setup which did not include this mic.



Here you can better see the distance between the front head of the kick drum and the mic. The mic itself is a Lawson L47FET with the 10dB pad engaged. It was routed to a Brent Averill Neve 1272 preamp, then a Purple Audio MC76, and then on to an API 550B for a little low mid cut and a couple of dB up at 30Hz. I totally expected to need another mic inside the drum or on the batter side to focus the attack, but the single mic outside the drum suited all the tunes just fine. Sometimes the surprise is nice.



Here you can see the snare drum miking arrangement and the cork beater on the bass drum pedal (for this one tune). Blue Mouse on top through a Daking 52270 preamp and again, a bit of EQ added. On the bottom, a Shure KSM141 with the 25dB pad and low cut engaged. The bottom mic went to an API 312 preamp.



Here you can better see the positioning of the top snare mic. You can also get an idea of the working distance I generally like for Oktava MC012s on toms. Both toms had 012s on them with 10dB pads and hypercardioid capsules and both went through additional Averill 1272s.



I also put up an ambient mic. I usually prefer the sound of stereo ambient drum kit miking, but this material lends itself to a more intimate sound. The ambient mic is there as another mixdown option and also provided a talkback for the musicians in the studio. The mic is an Audio Technica 4050 in omni routed to an API 312 preamp and into a Distressor. It's about 6 feet from the drum kit. I'm not usually into compressing room mics to tape, but I set it up as necessary for the talkback and liked it.



Here's a view from behind the kit, just for another perspective.

Hope this is entertaining.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
_________________
www.chrisgarges.com
The Public Good - New album available now
Playing drums and hihat with Mitch Easter (GA, TN - Aug. 2010)

[cgarges]

Here's some shots from Saturday's session on which I played drums. The artist is a very Suzanne Vega-esque piano player/singer. The band (keys, guitar, bass, drums) went for everything live, vocals included. Some stuff will be recut, some overdubs will be added, but for the most part, what was played then is the basis for the record. The band had never played together with this singer, who usually plays duo gigs with the guitarist, so arrangements were worked out on the spot. Two songs were tracked with a click. We got into four tunes on Saturday.

Drum sounds switched a lot from tune to tune, but the mics and signal path basically stayed the same with a few exceptions. The snare drums and cymbals switched pretty much from song-to-song.


Here's the basic kit layout. You can get an idea of the positioning of the overheads, which were Beyer M160s. Those went through a couple of Sytek preamps and the mics were equidistant from the center of the snare drum. I hadn't gotten to use a pair of 160s as overheads in a few years and I LOVED it for this stuff. There's a Sennheiser MD421 over the kick drum and kind of pointed inward towards the snare drum. This mic moved around a bit from song to song and may get used during the mix or not. It provides a good mono representation of the kit from close-in, which can provide a good source for things in the "funny noises" department. It went through a Daking 52270 preamp with a touch of EQ added. For one song, this mic also went through an Altec 1612A compressor. For another, it was intended to be routed through a SansAmp, but a patching mistake led to a more interesting setup which did not include this mic.



Here you can better see the distance between the front head of the kick drum and the mic. The mic itself is a Lawson L47FET with the 10dB pad engaged. It was routed to a Brent Averill Neve 1272 preamp, then a Purple Audio MC76, and then on to an API 550B for a little low mid cut and a couple of dB up at 30Hz. I totally expected to need another mic inside the drum or on the batter side to focus the attack, but the single mic outside the drum suited all the tunes just fine. Sometimes the surprise is nice.



Here you can see the snare drum miking arrangement and the cork beater on the bass drum pedal (for this one tune). Blue Mouse on top through a Daking 52270 preamp and again, a bit of EQ added. On the bottom, a Shure KSM141 with the 25dB pad and low cut engaged. The bottom mic went to an API 312 preamp.



Here you can better see the positioning of the top snare mic. You can also get an idea of the working distance I generally like for Oktava MC012s on toms. Both toms had 012s on them with 10dB pads and hypercardioid capsules and both went through additional Averill 1272s.



I also put up an ambient mic. I usually prefer the sound of stereo ambient drum kit miking, but this material lends itself to a more intimate sound. The ambient mic is there as another mixdown option and also provided a talkback for the musicians in the studio. The mic is an Audio Technica 4050 in omni routed to an API 312 preamp and into a Distressor. It's about 6 feet from the drum kit. I'm not usually into compressing room mics to tape, but I set it up as necessary for the talkback and liked it.



Here's a view from behind the kit, just for another perspective.

Hope this is entertaining.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
_________________
www.chrisgarges.com
The Public Good - New album available now
Playing drums and hihat with Mitch Easter (GA, TN - Aug. 2010)

[cwileyriser]

I can post a pic, but it'd be pretty unexciting. I was going to post about this somewhere on the Recording Techniques board anyway, so this is a good a place as any.

I've been totally floored by what good, usable sounds I've been getting just by throwing up a large diaphragm condensor (U87 or Rode Classic) about three feet high and three feet in front of the kick. Amazing. No other mics. I did it to track some scratch drum tracks over the last couple weeks, and ended up liking those tracks so much they ended up being used on the finished recordings as the only drum tracks. Sure saves a lot of time! I'm sure I won't do this all the time, but I'm also sure that I'll always have that LDC setup like that whenever drums are being tracked. There may be a lot of luck to it, because I'm in a nice big 1200+ sq ft room with wood floors, plaster walls, and 12-foot ceilings, but with enough furniture and junk in it to keep it from being too crazy.

But anyway, I guess the point is that it was shockingly easy to get a pretty good sound by doing something really simple and quick.

[joel77]

Nice pix all around.

Love your setup Chris! Interesting idea with the MD421.

Thanks, all!

Joel

[caz]

Oh, let's see some more!! I am so pitiful I'd rather look at a nicely mic'd snare than a nicely equipped swimsuit model...

{csmr}
_________________
//Casimer Pascal

[AstroDan]

That's a swank looking studio, Chris Garges. It's, like, a real one and stuff.

[cgarges]

[cgarges]

[nlmd311]

Chris,
That looks like one of the "Piglites". I remember you posting a shining review of them a while ago... might sound stupid, but how are you liking it (obviously enough to pull out for this specific session)?
And as a side note, would you be able to post any clips from that session? Just the drum tracks specifically... I understand this is work for a client and that might not be a cool thing to do.
Really interested in hearing that snare, recorded and at work with the other drums in the kit.
Either way, thanks for posting the pictures everyone!

-Darrill
_________________
slowly panning across something kind of crappy...

[cgarges]

I'll see what i can do. I don't usually like posting stuff that belongs to people with whom I'm working, but I'll check with her. She'll probably be fine with me posting drum tracks. Of course, it also depends on the time it takes for me to do it (running it off and then posting). I don't think I've ever posted any audio here.

For whatever it's worth, I absolutely love that snare drum. Surprisingly, I've been using it on a lot of jazz gigs--stupid as it looks--but it sounds great with brushes. They're very loud and speak well. Bass players love that drum.

I've used it on a bunch of sessions since I got it. I'm not too sure about that coated back dot head. In fact, I changed it just after that session. Makes the drum sound a bit choked, but it's a useable sound in its own right. It's been sort of medium tensioned with the black dot. I've been digging it sort of medium-tight with the snares sort of medium tight and a coated Ambassador on it. I'm trying a Fiberskyn on it now. Trying to see how it fits with my new Gretsch Catalina Birch kit. I'll let you know what I think.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
_________________
www.chrisgarges.com
The Public Good - New album available now
Playing drums and hihat with Mitch Easter (GA, TN - Aug. 2010)

[cgarges]

I'll see what i can do. I don't usually like posting stuff that belongs to people with whom I'm working, but I'll check with her. She'll probably be fine with me posting drum tracks. Of course, it also depends on the time it takes for me to do it (running it off and then posting). I don't think I've ever posted any audio here.

For whatever it's worth, I absolutely love that snare drum. Surprisingly, I've been using it on a lot of jazz gigs--stupid as it looks--but it sounds great with brushes. They're very loud and speak well. Bass players love that drum.

I've used it on a bunch of sessions since I got it. I'm not too sure about that coated back dot head. In fact, I changed it just after that session. Makes the drum sound a bit choked, but it's a useable sound in its own right. It's been sort of medium tensioned with the black dot. I've been digging it sort of medium-tight with the snares sort of medium tight and a coated Ambassador on it. I'm trying a Fiberskyn on it now. Trying to see how it fits with my new Gretsch Catalina Birch kit. I'll let you know what I think.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
_________________
www.chrisgarges.com
The Public Good - New album available now
Playing drums and hihat with Mitch Easter (GA, TN - Aug. 2010)