Beyer M160

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Post by @?,*???&? » Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:52 am

Make sure you keep those dots on the pop screen vertical when you're using it.

Ribbons like to be in an upright position at all times, unless they are being stored. In which case they like to be stored edge-wise.

fyi

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Post by Coco » Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:53 am

hyde maintenance wrote:Ok, so I just picked up an old M260 for like $30 that had the grill beat to death. I assumed that it would need a reribbon because of some obvious abuse (the guy also sid he used it almost exclusively on kick). So I get home, pop the dents out, try it out on voice and am convinced it's pootched. All muffy. But later I A-B'd it with a bunch of mics 6 feet in front of my drum kit, waist height and actually quite liked it- like more than the 441 in the same set up. Now I'm thinking it's good.
Are these things super susceptible to proximity effect? Maybe that was the basis of my initial reaction.
And when can you really tell the ribbon is done (besides when it goes poot)? I guess I need to hear a fresh one.
Send it to ENAK in Pittman NJ. I have been reading threads on PSW about Sank not fixing mics after payment being recieved, sending back broken mics, and taking 5 or 6 months to do so. Not trying to spread bad rumors or anything, because I have never dealt with him. Just giving you a heads up.
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Post by inverseroom » Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:09 pm

I've only had mine for a couple of months, but it is definitely my favorite mic. So good on hand percussion it makes me wanna die. If I had a grand piano, you know it would be right on that shit.

I'm surprised to hear people are going up close with it though...the proximity effect is really strong.

However I find it extremely hard to believe that having that tiny ribbon at the "wrong" angle for the duration of a session could harm the mic in any way.

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Post by Theron D » Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:15 pm

man I wonder what that M160 would sound like matched up with my Ampex 351 (all original electronics within specs) ? Fuk I need to throw some coin down and get one.....anyone ever match these two?

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Post by pulse_divider » Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:35 pm

I used it on electric guitar through an Ampex MX-35 and it sounded nice. Never used a 351, though, so I'm not sure how close it would be.

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Post by pscottm » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:40 am

Coco wrote:
hyde maintenance wrote:Ok, so I just picked up an old M260 for like $30 that had the grill beat to death. I assumed that it would need a reribbon because of some obvious abuse (the guy also sid he used it almost exclusively on kick). So I get home, pop the dents out, try it out on voice and am convinced it's pootched. All muffy. But later I A-B'd it with a bunch of mics 6 feet in front of my drum kit, waist height and actually quite liked it- like more than the 441 in the same set up. Now I'm thinking it's good.
Are these things super susceptible to proximity effect? Maybe that was the basis of my initial reaction.
And when can you really tell the ribbon is done (besides when it goes poot)? I guess I need to hear a fresh one.
Send it to ENAK in Pittman NJ. I have been reading threads on PSW about Sank not fixing mics after payment being recieved, sending back broken mics, and taking 5 or 6 months to do so. Not trying to spread bad rumors or anything, because I have never dealt with him. Just giving you a heads up.
or even better yet, send it to BEYERDYNAMIC. they have a factory repair shop in upstate NY. i just sent them a broken 160, they'll return it to me w ORIGINAL fresh innards. enak is brilliant but when the original manufacturer is available to restore w original parts, it's a no brainer.

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Post by inverseroom » Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:07 am

pscottm wrote:
Coco wrote:
hyde maintenance wrote:Ok, so I just picked up an old M260 for like $30 that had the grill beat to death. I assumed that it would need a reribbon because of some obvious abuse (the guy also sid he used it almost exclusively on kick). So I get home, pop the dents out, try it out on voice and am convinced it's pootched. All muffy. But later I A-B'd it with a bunch of mics 6 feet in front of my drum kit, waist height and actually quite liked it- like more than the 441 in the same set up. Now I'm thinking it's good.
Are these things super susceptible to proximity effect? Maybe that was the basis of my initial reaction.
And when can you really tell the ribbon is done (besides when it goes poot)? I guess I need to hear a fresh one.
Send it to ENAK in Pittman NJ. I have been reading threads on PSW about Sank not fixing mics after payment being recieved, sending back broken mics, and taking 5 or 6 months to do so. Not trying to spread bad rumors or anything, because I have never dealt with him. Just giving you a heads up.
or even better yet, send it to BEYERDYNAMIC. they have a factory repair shop in upstate NY. i just sent them a broken 160, they'll return it to me w ORIGINAL fresh innards. enak is brilliant but when the original manufacturer is available to restore w original parts, it's a no brainer.
You're kidding, where?!!?

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Post by hyde maintenance » Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:10 am

Whoa there you reribbon fanatics. What do you hold aluminium stock or somethin'? Sorry but your not going to get rich off of my sad m260 quite yet. (thanks for the info)

Like I said- I am quite liking the sound now- and I'm also beginning to suspect that these are fairly hearty lil guys and maybe mine is not really too far gone.

I have ordered some new pres which should arrive today, so I'll be doing some playin' around and will listen to what the 260 is tellin' me then.

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Post by klute » Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:55 am

I just fried my m160 on an open-backed banjo. Ouch. I sent it off to ENAK and was quoted $150 to repair it. It was sounding great though. Drum overheads, acoustic guitar, banjo; awesome.

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Post by ulriggribbons » Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:39 am

pscottm wrote: or even better yet, send it to BEYERDYNAMIC. they have a factory repair shop in upstate NY. i just sent them a broken 160, they'll return it to me w ORIGINAL fresh innards. enak is brilliant but when the original manufacturer is available to restore w original parts, it's a no brainer.
I'd second that. The ribbon used in these mics is not of your standard garden variety, it's a piston style ribbon that is hard to make without the "right stuff".

You can make a ribbon for them, and they'll sound great, but if you can get the original parts, go for it! =)


ju

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Post by rodabod » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:31 pm

hyde maintenance wrote:...So I get home, pop the dents out, try it out on voice and am convinced it's pootched. All muffy. But later I A-B'd it with a bunch of mics 6 feet in front of my drum kit, waist height and actually quite liked it- like more than the 441 in the same set up. Now I'm thinking it's good.
Are these things super susceptible to proximity effect? Maybe that was the basis of my initial reaction.
And when can you really tell the ribbon is done (besides when it goes poot)? I guess I need to hear a fresh one.
M260s have a pronounced proximity effect. They can be a bit boomy at close range.

When the ribbon is going, you tend to notice loss in either the bass or treble range first - ie. thin or very dull. You sometimes get nasty distortion in bad cases.

To (very vaguely) test, record some acoustic guitar to see if you can hear the top-end reasonably. It will be soft, but most importantly, it should be present. If it sounds steeply rolled off (ie. no treble) then I'd consider a re-ribbon.

Beyer are probably a good choice for re-ribbon jobs, but remember that they actually throw away the innards and replace them with new parts. You are left with the original casing and grill with new insides.

An actual re-ribboned Beyer never quite sounds the same as an original because of the type of ribbon which Beyer uses which cannot be copied exactly.

Standard corrugation leaves ribbon of the same thickness as the original sounding more boomy, whereas thinner ribbon with a standard corrugation sounds brighter (but still good though).

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Post by pscottm » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:42 pm

inverseroom wrote:
You're kidding, where?!!?
i emailed beyerdynamic hq in germany and they promptly replied and told me to send it here:

beyerdynamic usa
56 central ave
farmingdale, ny 11735

..which is where i sent it. just email them, they're very nice.


similarly, when my akg k240's died i emailed akg and whattayaknow, their usa hq is less than 200 mi away. they shipped some factory fresh drivers via ups ground and i had them next day.

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Post by inverseroom » Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:51 pm

Who would have thought I'm in the middle of a sea of mic techs?

Yeah, my M160 was bought new, and I keep everything two feet away from it. Strong, strong proximity effect and you need lots of gain...but a stunning sound.

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Post by hyde maintenance » Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:26 pm

M260s have a pronounced proximity effect. They can be a bit boomy at close range.

When the ribbon is going, you tend to notice loss in either the bass or treble range first - ie. thin or very dull. You sometimes get nasty distortion in bad cases.

To (very vaguely) test, record some acoustic guitar to see if you can hear the top-end reasonably. It will be soft, but most importantly, it should be present. If it sounds steeply rolled off (ie. no treble) then I'd consider a re-ribbon.

Beyer are probably a good choice for re-ribbon jobs, but remember that they actually throw away the innards and replace them with new parts. You are left with the original casing and grill with new insides.

An actual re-ribboned Beyer never quite sounds the same as an original because of the type of ribbon which Beyer uses which cannot be copied exactly.

Standard corrugation leaves ribbon of the same thickness as the original sounding more boomy, whereas thinner ribbon with a standard corrugation sounds brighter (but still good though).
Rodabod-
Thank you for the info. This is the kind of thing I was wondering about. There is definitely nothing drastically wrong with it, and it is not lacking in the bottom- the top seems very smooth- a low key kind of thing- but pleasant and there. Quite nice sound actually.
What is the possibility that a previously abused M260 could still be a happy/ healthy puppy?

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Post by Coco » Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:27 am

pscottm wrote:
Coco wrote:
hyde maintenance wrote:Ok, so I just picked up an old M260 for like $30 that had the grill beat to death. I assumed that it would need a reribbon because of some obvious abuse (the guy also sid he used it almost exclusively on kick). So I get home, pop the dents out, try it out on voice and am convinced it's pootched. All muffy. But later I A-B'd it with a bunch of mics 6 feet in front of my drum kit, waist height and actually quite liked it- like more than the 441 in the same set up. Now I'm thinking it's good.
Are these things super susceptible to proximity effect? Maybe that was the basis of my initial reaction.
And when can you really tell the ribbon is done (besides when it goes poot)? I guess I need to hear a fresh one.
Send it to ENAK in Pittman NJ. I have been reading threads on PSW about Sank not fixing mics after payment being recieved, sending back broken mics, and taking 5 or 6 months to do so. Not trying to spread bad rumors or anything, because I have never dealt with him. Just giving you a heads up.
or even better yet, send it to BEYERDYNAMIC. they have a factory repair shop in upstate NY. i just sent them a broken 160, they'll return it to me w ORIGINAL fresh innards. enak is brilliant but when the original manufacturer is available to restore w original parts, it's a no brainer.
True, but ENAK is cheaper. Beyer quoted me around $225-$250 (can't quite remember) US to replace the guts and everyhting. That was on a vintage model, and I was not sure if any of the innards have changed. I think ENAK uses RCA ribbon stock which will impart a slightly different sound to the stock Beyer ribbons.
I know enough to know that I don't know what I am doing.

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