Tascam MX2424 questions...

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strdsk
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Tascam MX2424 questions...

Post by strdsk » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:53 am

Hey all,
OK...I need your expert advice on something here. I'm currently running two Panasonic DA7s in tandem linked to four Tascam DA78s with no computer in between, but very few clients want to work on this format any longer and I'm trying to avoid ProTools and other computer based recording systems like the plague...lol! I'm actually a 2" fan, so the DA78s were a stretch for me...computers...no way!Also, my DA78 maintenance is getting very expensive to keep up with, I have a fear of them eating my master tapes one day, and Tascam says that they won't be making DA78 parts much longer and many tape companies are unfortunately sharing the sentiment. I know all about the tascam X48 coming out and like the idea that it offers 48 tracks, it is compatible with other digital file formats, and has all the goodies that my DA7 has...i.e....compressors, gates, e.q.s on every channel, mouse/keyboard/monitor expansion, and high bit density. However, I will never use all 48 tracks, I don't have room for a monitor, hard-drives do crash, I love my DA7s and don't want to sell them when they don't link to the X48, I have custom furniture made for the DA7s, the X48s are coming out until at least May, and who knows what the first batch of X48s will offer? I'm strongly considering going with a Tascam MX2424. Anyone think that this is a terrible idea...any problems out there with this unit? It seems as though people either love or hate this machine? Were some Mx2424s more stable than others, and if so how do I tell the good from the bad...serial numbers or version points perhaps? Is anyone out there selling their MX2424? Finally, my two DA7s are 32 tracks in total...hence my four DA78s. I would be downsizing my track number which is fine with me, but can I run only 24 tracks between two DA7 consoles? In other words, I already have four TDIF cards installed between my two DA7 consoles. Can I simply disconnect one of my TDIF cables from my slave DA7 console, or will it freak out my digital set-up with a D/IO error code? Will I need to physically remove one of my TDIF cards on the back of my slave DA7? Thanks...Joey D!

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Mark Alan Miller
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Post by Mark Alan Miller » Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:51 am

Consider a used Mackie HDR 24/96 - no computer nessesary to access the (very very good, IMO) editing features, and otherwise operates just like a tape machine. Can be found quite oftern with digital I/O so it'll work straight away with your DA7. From what I've seen, way easier to use than the MX2424, which also requires an external computer for the GUI editing...
he took a duck in the face at two and hundred fifty knots.

http://www.radio-valkyrie.com/ao/aoindex.htm - download the new record (free is an option!) or get it on CD.

strdsk
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Post by strdsk » Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:20 am

Thanks Mark, but I'm not really all that into GUI editing anyways. Also, I really wanted a unit that could have a DVD burner installed on the front panel...such as the 2424. Those other hot swappable hard drives get expensive. Thanks...Joe

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Post by kayagum » Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:56 am

You may want to consider an Alesis HD24 too. Very happy with mine.

According to Andy Hong (gear editor of TapeOp), MX2424 units are pretty easy to find for cheap on EBay, since they're discontinued. I see 2 of them for around $1500-$1600 right now.

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Post by Mark Alan Miller » Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:58 am

In light of what you're saying I have to agree that the MX2424 is the way to go.
I don't care much for the Alesis unit due partially to its propretary file system...
he took a duck in the face at two and hundred fifty knots.

http://www.radio-valkyrie.com/ao/aoindex.htm - download the new record (free is an option!) or get it on CD.

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Post by strdsk » Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:07 am

Are those honkin' 2424 side mounted fans noisey? Thanks...Joe

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Post by stinkpot » Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:26 pm

I've been using a 2424 for several years now. I've heard the unstable stories, and could share a few of my own. However, if you maintain them properly they will work very well. It sounds like you want to have a digital machine that's pretty much a tape machine without tape. That's what this is.

Maintenance - make sure the big honkin' fan is clean. The heat management is not the best. When it gets hot you get "media too slow" error messages. I got a bunch, took the fan out, cleaned the clogged screen and it's been fine ever since. It's not super noisy, but not that quiet either. I don't track in the same room with it.

Hard drives need to be "low level formatted" often. Actually, as often as possible is best. The more intensive recording you do with punches, undo's, automation, the more often you'll need to reformat the drive. I do it at least 2-3 times a month, depending on how busy I am. If you record in Tape Mode as opposed to Non-Destructive, you shouldn't have any problems.

I would definately suggest having it connectied to a computer as a lot of the maintenance functions, finding tracks that may vanish, importing-exporting audio is much much easier using MX-View. It's not necessary though, just easier.

The biggest drawback is that tascam doesn't support the machine in any way anymore. It's almost hard to find them mentioned on tascam's web site. There's several forums dedicated to supporting the machine and it's users. All are good. Parts will soon be hard to come by.

I'm not sure if you can acutally mount a regular dvd burner to the unit. The one I have is a DVD-RAM drive. The discs are enclosed in cartrages. It's weird, slow, and the discs are exteremely expensive. I don't use it anymore, just back up to computer.

I saw about 9 of them for sale on ebay a month or so ago with no bids on any of them. You can defiantely find them used and cheap. I wouldn't pay more than a grand for one, though.

Go here for any and all questions you may have about the unit.

http://www.themx2424board.com/

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Post by strdsk » Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:02 pm

Please do share a few of your unstable stories! Yes...I am looking for a tapeless tape machine. Are you saying that the on board hard drive needs to be frequently low level formatted, or the external drives that you can hook up to them need to be low level formatted? Furthermore, what does low level foamatted even mean? What's the difference between tape mode and non-destructive? Tracks vanish? I did notice that Tascam doesn't even acknowledge that they made the machine on their website...lol! Parts will be hard to find? I was actually referring to DVD-RAM drives being mounted in the front of the unit. What disks are enclosed in cartridges, weird, slow, and expensive...the DVDs themselves or the front mountable hard drives? I found one for $1,800.00 with the DVD RAM, manual, box, and shipping. Not worth it huh? Thank you much for all of your help! Joey D!








I've been using a 2424 for several years now. I've heard the unstable stories, and could share a few of my own. However, if you maintain them properly they will work very well. It sounds like you want to have a digital machine that's pretty much a tape machine without tape. That's what this is.

Maintenance - make sure the big honkin' fan is clean. The heat management is not the best. When it gets hot you get "media too slow" error messages. I got a bunch, took the fan out, cleaned the clogged screen and it's been fine ever since. It's not super noisy, but not that quiet either. I don't track in the same room with it.

Hard drives need to be "low level formatted" often. Actually, as often as possible is best. The more intensive recording you do with punches, undo's, automation, the more often you'll need to reformat the drive. I do it at least 2-3 times a month, depending on how busy I am. If you record in Tape Mode as opposed to Non-Destructive, you shouldn't have any problems.

I would definately suggest having it connectied to a computer as a lot of the maintenance functions, finding tracks that may vanish, importing-exporting audio is much much easier using MX-View. It's not necessary though, just easier.

The biggest drawback is that tascam doesn't support the machine in any way anymore. It's almost hard to find them mentioned on tascam's web site. There's several forums dedicated to supporting the machine and it's users. All are good. Parts will soon be hard to come by.

I'm not sure if you can acutally mount a regular dvd burner to the unit. The one I have is a DVD-RAM drive. The discs are enclosed in cartrages. It's weird, slow, and the discs are exteremely expensive. I don't use it anymore, just back up to computer.

I saw about 9 of them for sale on ebay a month or so ago with no bids on any of them. You can defiantely find them used and cheap. I wouldn't pay more than a grand for one, though.

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Post by stinkpot » Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:42 am

My personal unstable stories all have to do with me pushing the envelope too much in terms of the formating issue. I suppose I should start there.

Low level formatting is wiping your hard drive completely, and then reinitializing. (The on-board drive, but I believe you can do it with external's as well). It get rid of all of those little data fragments that float around and muck things up. If I've been doing lots of recording in Non-destructive mode - which is where you can edit, undo, create virtual tracks, etc. - I'll need to low level format (LLF) more often because it seems to leave pieces of data all over the place which can then cause errors. I'm simplifying here, probably too much, but that's a good way to look at it. If you LLF often you won't get parse errors, etc. As far as external drives go, I don't know how they perform, as I haven't used them. I would guess they do a little better, but I can't say with certainty.

Tape mode is a mode that you can put the machine in where it's just like working with tape. For example, if you punch in and blow the punch, you can't undo. You just have to punch in earlier next time. You can't copy, paste, automate, etc. in Tape Mode. You CAN do all of those things in Non-destructive mode. You just use up a lot more disc space more quickly.

I have only had tracks vanish when I got a parse error, closed the file, and reopened. I've pretty much always been able to recover it though through the Import/ Export audio window. That's kind of complicated and maybe just take my word for it for now. Nothing really critical has ever vanished for good. LLF your drive frequently and you'll never have a problem.

Here's the DVD RAM discs --> http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/defaul ... C=207398

I don't really use them any more because I back up to different hard drives on my computer, which is faster and a lot cheaper than buying the discs. Don't buy just any DVD RAM - it has to be that specific type (type I or II I don't remember off hand, I can post that later if you want.) Please note, this is a RAM drive, not a ROM drive. There's a difference.

I don't know, that's about what I paid for mine several years ago. I think you could find them cheaper. I saw one on ebay a while back for about a grand. Make sure it has the AD/DA converters too.

You know, I think you actually live pretty close to me. PM me if you want to check mine out in person. I'd be happy to give you the "tour."

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Post by stinkpot » Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:47 am

stinkpot wrote:My personal unstable stories all have to do with me pushing the envelope too much in terms of the formating issue. I suppose I should start there.

Low level formatting is wiping your hard drive completely, and then reinitializing. (The on-board drive, but I believe you can do it with external's as well). It get rid of all of those little data fragments that float around and muck things up. If I've been doing lots of recording in Non-destructive mode - which is where you can edit, undo, create virtual tracks, etc. - I'll need to low level format (LLF) more often because it seems to leave pieces of data all over the place which can then cause errors. I'm simplifying here, probably too much, but that's a good way to look at it. If you LLF often you won't get parse errors, etc. As far as external drives go, I don't know how they perform, as I haven't used them. I would guess they do a little better, but I can't say with certainty.

Tape mode is a mode that you can put the machine in where it's just like working with tape. For example, if you punch in and blow the punch, you can't undo. You just have to punch in earlier next time. You can't copy, paste, automate, etc. in Tape Mode. You CAN do all of those things in Non-destructive mode. You just use up a lot more disc space more quickly.

I have only had tracks vanish when I got a parse error, closed the file, and reopened. I've pretty much always been able to recover it though through the Import/ Export audio window. That's kind of complicated and maybe just take my word for it for now. Nothing really critical has ever vanished for good. LLF your drive frequently and you'll never have a problem.

Here's the DVD RAM discs --> http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/defaul ... C=207398

I don't really use them any more because I back up to different hard drives on my computer, which is faster and a lot cheaper than buying the discs. Don't buy just any DVD RAM - it has to be that specific type (type I or II I don't remember off hand, I can post that later if you want.) Please note, this is a RAM drive, not a ROM drive. There's a difference.

I don't know, that's about what I paid for mine several years ago. I think you could find them cheaper. I saw one on ebay a while back for about a grand. Make sure it has the AD/DA converters too.

You know, I think you actually live pretty close to me. PM me if you want to check mine out in person. I'd be happy to give you the run down with the machine right there. Might be easier.

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Post by jrsgodfrey » Tue Feb 14, 2006 12:31 pm

Have you considered a Radar II? Discontinued, but i believe IZ will support them.

Very nice machines, and no computer needed at all. Don't know what the used price is for them these days. When I was looking (never did buy) it was in the $2500-$3500 range, but that was a few years ago.

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Post by stinkpot » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:03 pm

sorry for double post. don't know what happened - must've been when i was editing the last line trying not to sound creepy :biggergrin:

dunno what's up with the urls being squirelly either.

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Post by strdsk » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:38 pm

So I'd have to frequently wipe BOTH the internal and external drives completely clean, or LLF, in order to avoid errors or/and lost data? Wow! Yeah...I'd definitely be using non-destructive mode so it's starting to sound like this machine is very unstable. I mean, that's kinda' unrealistic to have to do if you have this machine and are counting on it to deliver trust worthy work to numerous clients. I'd probably have to constantly be doing this. The DVD RAMs aren't actual round shiny disks...they're almost like floppies? Ouch...$18.00 each!! Some units come without the AD-DA converters? I need the unit to have TDIF to go back and forth to a digital Panasonic DA7 console so would I even need a converter like the one you're mentioning? Thanks a lot for all of the help man...I'd love to swing by and check out your studio anyways...you are very close to me! Kudos! Joey D!




quote="stinkpot"]My personal unstable stories all have to do with me pushing the envelope too much in terms of the formating issue. I suppose I should start there.

Low level formatting is wiping your hard drive completely, and then reinitializing. (The on-board drive, but I believe you can do it with external's as well). It get rid of all of those little data fragments that float around and muck things up. If I've been doing lots of recording in Non-destructive mode - which is where you can edit, undo, create virtual tracks, etc. - I'll need to low level format (LLF) more often because it seems to leave pieces of data all over the place which can then cause errors. I'm simplifying here, probably too much, but that's a good way to look at it. If you LLF often you won't get parse errors, etc. As far as external drives go, I don't know how they perform, as I haven't used them. I would guess they do a little better, but I can't say with certainty.

Tape mode is a mode that you can put the machine in where it's just like working with tape. For example, if you punch in and blow the punch, you can't undo. You just have to punch in earlier next time. You can't copy, paste, automate, etc. in Tape Mode. You CAN do all of those things in Non-destructive mode. You just use up a lot more disc space more quickly.

I have only had tracks vanish when I got a parse error, closed the file, and reopened. I've pretty much always been able to recover it though through the Import/ Export audio window. That's kind of complicated and maybe just take my word for it for now. Nothing really critical has ever vanished for good. LLF your drive frequently and you'll never have a problem.

Here's the DVD RAM discs --> http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/defaul ... DC=207398

I don't really use them any more because I back up to different hard drives on my computer, which is faster and a lot cheaper than buying the discs. Don't buy just any DVD RAM - it has to be that specific type (type I or II I don't remember off hand, I can post that later if you want.) Please note, this is a RAM drive, not a ROM drive. There's a difference.

I don't know, that's about what I paid for mine several years ago. I think you could find them cheaper. I saw one on ebay a while back for about a grand. Make sure it has the AD/DA converters too.

You know, I think you actually live pretty close to me. PM me if you want to check mine out in person. I'd be happy to give you the run down with the machine right there. Might be easier.

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Post by strdsk » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:41 pm

I also build mics that you'd probably dig...I'll bring one down! Joey D!

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Post by stinkpot » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:05 pm

PM'd you.

It's not as bad as I made it sound- LLF'n. However, I will be making the switch to a DAW quite soon, but keeping the MX for various reasons.

I don't know, check your PM and give me a call. We'll talk.

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