Tascam MX2424 questions...

[kayagum]

In light of what you're saying I have to agree that the MX2424 is the way to go.
I don't care much for the Alesis unit due partially to its propretary file system...

I'd take a more stable proprietary system over a less stable FAT format any day of the week.

The reason some people were bitching about the Alesis OS was that someone on this board was pissed he couldn't recover data after the drive died on his Masterlink (not that his chances were that much better using freeware or proprietary drive recovery utilities had it been on FAT or the Mac format).

My impression is that most people are having sporadic problems with the Alesis drives not because of its format, but because they forget that it's a hard drive. Move a piece of equipment with it, and you'll always be faced with a risk of a head crash. If you don't keep your deck well ventilated, that's a risk too. And there's always a risk just because it has moving parts.

And the reason why most people are having drive problems with standalone systems that support cut and paste are probably the same people who don't understand why they need to defragment their PC/Mac drives. At least stinkpot understands that (in the absence of any defrag utilties provided by Tascam) that the only other alternative is a low level reformat- basically nuke the drive and start over before the fragmentation issues get out of hand.

The villified Alesis format basically writes data in more sequential chunks than with FAT. Although I'm not sure if I completely believe the Alesis claim that this method allows use of slower spinning drives (not that it matters anymore since 7200 rpm is the minimum standard for new drives), I do believe that this helps control fragmentation of the files. Since the HD24 does not support virtual tracks or non-destructive DAW style editing (it behaves mostly like a tape machine), that also helps with the fragmentation problem.

With an HD24, you can use the Fireport to transfer all of your files to a Mac or PC in a flash. Then you can back it up to whatever format or medium your little heart desires. But no matter what box you use (HD24, MX2424, laptops, G5 towers, etc.), YOU are responsible for your data backup and integrity (a more serious corollary to Joel H's primary directive). Don't wait until your drive is on the fritz to start bitching about the format. It's like bitching about the brand of tires on your car after you drive off the highway into a tree.

For chrissakes, don't blame the format or protocol. If you do a general search of the board threads, you'll find that most HD24 users (myself included) are extremely happy with the stability of the system, including board luminaries heylow and cgarges. But I'm sure they would be the first to tell you to BACK UP YOUR DATA.

I must be crabby. Gotta go get some coffee and food.

[stinkpot]

Even though it may seem otherwise, I'm not trying to sell anyone on the MX2424, just give info from my experiance with it.

I do want to clear up one point from the previous post. You can initialize the hard drive as EITHER Fat32 or SDII, which I believe is a Mac format. I have generally used Fat32, but have done projects in both with good results.

I totally agree with the previous post about LLF'n being the same as defragmenting the drive - well accomplishing the same goal. It is imparitive that you do it. I don't know how often you have to do that type of thing with the Alesis or Mackie stand alones, but am guessing you should defrag or LLF them almost as often. It doesn't take that long to do, and if you plan your time appropriately, should never get in the way of a session. Also if you record in Tape Mode as opposed to Non-destructive, it's not nearly as much of an issue, but you're much more limited in terms of sexy functions.

Also (and I would guess this is the same for the other stand alones out there) I've never had any trouble transferring files to or from Protools or any other DAW that I've needed to work with. It's seemless and easy once you know how to do it.

And yes, BACK UP YOUR DATA!!! - Whatever format you go with.

[Garthplinko]

At the studio I worked at a few years back, we made the switch from ADATs to the MX2424. We were constantly on the message board checking on how to maintain and properly use the machine. When the reports came out about "freezing" units, we had our serial number checked and it was supposedly one of those (but we never had it freeze up on us). Tascam sent us a new machine and continued on with no problems. The only issues we had were operator errors in backing up sessions (painful lessons). You should still be able to check the serial number of the unit you buy to see if it's one of those earlier unstable units before you purchase it anyway especially if the 2424 message board is still up.

Overall, I would say that the MX2424 is a great unit - the sound is there. I wouldn't worry the fact that it's discontinued/no longer supported - you are probably used to that anyway being a DA7 owner - I have a DA7 too and absolutely love it even though I don't use it for tracking anymore. btw - you wouldn't happen to have an ADDA card lying around you'd want to sell me would you? heh heh...

[strdsk]

Unfortunately no I don't Garth...lol! I'm wondering how difficult it is to remove those DVD drives on the front panel of the MX2424 and swap it out with a removable hard drive? If not very, is it expensive? Thanks again...Joey D!

[stinkpot]

I know that the front bay is set up for either a DVD drive or a removable hard drive.
Now, how expensive it is, I don't know.

[strdsk]

If I were to record ALL of my sessions one at a time to the internal 9gig hard drive then render them to an external 250gig hard drive for storage, would this external drive also have to be LLF'ed often? Can I come out of the MX2424 via ethernet to an external drive or must I use the SCSI outputs? Would this drive worK?
http://www.westerndigital.com/en/produc ... riveID=151

Finally, are ProTools files accepted into the MX2424 and how is audio delegated track for track? Thanks once again...Joey D!

[stinkpot]

I'll do the best I can here - this is heading into more technical computer stuff that honestly, I'm probably not the best to answer. There's guys on the MX2424 forum (link in my first post in this thread) that could help you out. Check that board for the final word on whether the hard drive would be suitable. I don't see why not though.

I can't see you having to LLF your external storage drive very often if you're just using it to back up your data. The MX, like any computer that is used often for intensive applications such as recording leaves pieces of data all over the place and needs to be defragged. Same thing. You wouldn't actually be recording on that drive, it seems, so there would be less fragments all over it, which translates to less need to defrag/LLF as often.

I connect to my computer via ethernet. I use the GUI (MX-View) for editing and transport control, and the hard drives in the computer for backup. Both work very well.

The protools files have to be rendered and dumped as mono summed (broadcast) .wav files. It's easy. Same for the MX - render them (so no punch points exist anymore, all tracks are one continuous track) and dump them as .wav files.

What do you mean about how is audio delegated track for track? You can name them whatever you want, if that's what you mean. It's easy to keep track of them if you render first.

I've gone back and forth between the MX and PT a LOT, with no probs. Make sure you start at 0.

Time stamping transfers well.

[Garthplinko]

then render them to an external 250gig hard drive for storage, would this external drive also have to be LLF'ed often?

No I don't think so - I think that this needs to be done more often if you're using and reusing the drive for tracking and doing lots of punches/edits. If you're just dumping it to a drive for medium/long term storage, you should be fine. Don't buy 1 though. Buy 2. More backups = more safety. And storage now is so cheap that you shouldn't take the chance. No sir.

Can I come out of the MX2424 via ethernet to an external drive or must I use the SCSI outputs? Would this drive worK?

If I were you, I'd take my files and send them to a mac over ethernet with a built in dvd burner (which I imagine would be much cheaper and faster than any SCSI burner you'd be able to find these days) and not mess with it. But it sounds like you want to avoid using a computer as much as possible so...

are ProTools files accepted into the MX2424

I'm almost positive that SDII was an option but these days PT will work with AIFF and WAV as well so that becomes less of an issue.

You may want to try posting some of these questions at mx2424.com or www.themx2424board.com .

[fremitus]

Nice topic, wish i dove in earlier.

I've been using an MX2424 since they were introduced. I think that they are outstanding. Yes, you have to be diligent about taking care of your hard drives. I have only lost one project ever. I was able to recover it completely though with the use of a PC and the software that I use to recover data for IT clients. So actually, I've never lost a project unless it was because I was an assclown and deleted it.

The sound of the cconvertors is very good especially for the $. If you can get one for $1000-$1200 I would call it a great day for sure.

Totally pro-tools friendly with the files, easy-peasy, we do it all the time.

I've been looking at Tascam's as yet unreleased X48, it should step this whole thing up a notch with XP embedded, but then again I do use the GUI for editing a bunch even though it's wonky OS9 unsupported madness.

The RADAR systems rule too, esp. if yer just basically trying to use 'digital tape' but as stated earlier, the MX2424 in Tape Mode is a sick price option.

[audiogeek1]

Where I work we have 8 mx2424 units in operation and they work fine. We do not use them in a typical studio situation though. They are used regularly to record multiple languages for 2 hours solid then the drives are removed a new one inserted and next recording of languages for 2 hours or so. This is usally done on a weekly basis. We actually use 4 machines and 4 are redundant back up machines just in case.

This being said we have not had hard drive problems because we do the low level format before we record to a drive. The systems have been very stable as far as the way we use it goes. Although because of the age of the units we are going to the Genex 48 track recorders for this operation. But will hang onto most of the MX2424s for various other things.

We also use 2 more for some location recording. Most broadcast trucks do not have multitrack capability so we use them when doing remote broadcasts and will be doing post sound later to retweek. The timecode sync on these units are very well done and works every time for use. I think that is one of the best things about the unit. It works.

Hope the info helps

Mike

[stinkpot]

So strdsk, have we sufficiently complicated your decision making process?

[strdsk]

I'm wondering if I can just hook up a standalone external zip or jaz drive to the unit's scsi outputs and back-up to 250 mb zip disks? Would this work? Thanks...Joey D!

[stinkpot]

You're not talking about the old style zip drives, are you? Those things are terribly unreliable - something like 60% of data stored on them is unretrievable or corrupted in some way.

If you're talking about something else, then ignore me.

I'd just get an external scsi drive and back up to that if you don't want to have a computer involved.

Just out of curiousity, why do you not want to have a computer in the mix. The beauty of the MX is that you don't need a super fast, high powered machine. You can use most anything that has an ethernet card and just back up to that. you can throw a cheap DVD burner into the computer and back up again to that. You could probably build a PC that is sufficient to take care of your backup requirements for about the cost of getting a large external drive - if you don't have one already. That's what I did, and it's been great. It's basically a glorified remote for my MX and a place to dump my data too.

[stinkpot]

I just looked at that Western Digital drive you posted a link for again. I think it might acutally work pretty well as long as you can get the connectivity worked out.

And, no, you shouldn't have to defrag/ LLF it very often if you're just using it for back up.

[strdsk]

Hello,
So if I link my MX2424 to a PC with sufficient hard drive memory and a DVD RW burner using an ethernet cable, I can use the MX software to "see" the session and burn entire sessions to the PC's hard drive or to a DVD RW? Would I then have to load each session from the PC's memory or one of the said burned DVDs to the MX2424 to work on a session, and if so is this process just as slow as people say the MX2424's front DVD ROM drive's load/burn time is? Or, can I take session data in "real time" from DVD RWs loaded in my PC or the PC's hard drive memory via the ethernet cable? Thanks...Joey D!