reducing sound transmission through existing windows

[pulse_divider]

Just wondering if there's a simple cheap way to reduce sound transmission through an existing window without replacing the window?
I'm looking at a place that has huge stained glass windows and am wondering if it's possible or helpful to throw a second or third pane over the top on either the inside, outside or both.. Are there any products specialized for this sort of thing?
It doesn't need to be completely soundproof, I'm just looking to up the isolation factor a bit.
thanks.

[pulse_divider]

Here's what the windows look like. I hope to have better pictures tomorrow.

http://tinyurl.com/lnhy2

[mingus2112]

did you BUY that place????? that's going to be the best live room ever!

[pulse_divider]

Not yet, but I will if all goes well.
At this point I'm just looking into the feasibility of turning it into a studio. It's a brick structure with a heavy slate roof so the windows will be the weak link in regards to sound transmission. I would want to keep the originals because they are so cool, I'm just wondering if they can be "tightened up" a bit. It's in a quiet residential neighborhood and I'm more worried about sound going out than sound coming in.

[mingus2112]

yeah. . .tough call. . .it's a great looking place too. . .i bet it sounds great too!

[djimbe]

Boy, have you got a tiger by the tail! Cool place though, that's for sure. This idea ain't cheap and may not be perfect, but...

Many of the churches around me with the big leaded windows have external panes mounted on the outside. They have a minimal metal frame anchored to the building face, and very small metal mullions for holding panes of storm glass. These are as much for protection of 100 year old windows as they are for heating efficiency. You'll want heating efficiency in a space like that one, trust me. You'd have to find someone who does this kinda work, and pay to have it done right. You could even do it inside and out if you were really anal. Not cheap though. Guess that goes with the territory. If I had to find a contractor for such work, I'd start by asking my local Archdiocese office what they know about it. Big ol' Catholic churches don't take care of themselves, and I understand God is all thumbs when it comes to glazier work...

[cwileyriser]

Clear mass-loaded vinyl?

[Electro-Voice 664]

Wow, so jealous!
Yeah, first get the place!
Then hire me!
No........ external panes are the way to go. They will probably be pricey, but they should help a lot.
You gonna lease or buy?
I'd love to see more pics when you get some.

[pulse_divider]

Thanks for the responses. I'm about to Google "clear mass-loaded vinyl".
For all I know, it could very well already have outside storm panes. Though I know little about construction and insulation, I was hoping this was a somewhat standard thing so it's nice to know it is possible.
I'm checking the building out tomorrow but have to drive 7 hours to get there, so I'm just trying to do homework on possible weak links before getting there.
I won't be doing any scientific tests at this point for room modes and the like, just general listening tests. My idea is to bring a big loud amp (my Fender Bassman Ten), a bass and a guitar have my friend who's helping me play very loudly while I walk the outside perimeter of the property. If I can't hear it or it's not loud enough to bother the neighbors, it's good enough for me. I'll also try to sit outside in my car while honking the horn and see if it's noticeable inside.
If any of you have better ideas on how to non-scientifically test for bleed, I'd totally welcome them.
Thanks.

[cwileyriser]

You said it's in a residential area, so maybe not much of an issue, but my biggest noise problem comes from the rumble of truck traffic - but I'm very close to the street, too. The car horn won't tell you anything about low frequency stuff bleeding in, which would be the biggest potential problem (aside from the occasional siren, maybe). What about taking some kind of recorder and a mic with you and leaving it running for a few hours inside so you can check later for stuff bleeding in from outside? If you can dump the recording into a computer, then you could look for the anomalies instead of having to listen to a few hours of nothingness....

[Professor]

Auralex "SheetBlok" is available in both dark grey/black, and clear. There was an article on here maybe 3-4 months ago from a guy who put two layers over (or under) a skylight in his control room to kill the sound of rain and traffic leaking in. Hes said it was really quite successful.

I would aim to do something like SheetBlok (which is limp-mass vinyl) on the inside of the windows and maybe a plexiglass storm window on the outside. That would give you superior isolation, it would protect you from rocks breaking pretty windows from either side, and it would improve the heating/cooling expenses.

Cool space man. I almost bought a big church in western PA about 4 years ago where I would have built a studio & performing arts space. You should consider the option the space being a performance venue as well as a studio. Then a band could come in and play a gig on Fri & Sat night, you could track the performances, and then spend Sunday - Thursday working on re-tracking, overdubs, edits and mixing. And the gigs could pay for all or most of the session costs. Imagine how many bands would be there if you said the rate was $1500-200 for a week, but they could play two gigs and the door price could cover the recording fees!

-Jeremy

[xonlocust]

Imagine how many bands would be there if you said the rate was $1500-200 for a week, but they could play two gigs and the door price could cover the recording fees!

i need to get in a band that makes 750-1000 per show.

[cwileyriser]

Imagine how many bands would be there if you said the rate was $1500-200 for a week, but they could play two gigs and the door price could cover the recording fees!

i need to get in a band that makes 750-1000 per show.

Yeah - no freakin' shit!!!! The only time I've ever made that kind of money was in a wedding band! And maybe a college show or two where, thank God, the kids that are on the concert boards don't know that many of the bands they love rarely make more than a hundred bucks a show (I was one of those college concert board kids a long time ago) I think fans that I've met on tours have generally been surprised and disappointed when they find out how much we really make, but I rarely can tell whether the disappointment is with the music business or the band - like is it - "wow, musicians and other artists should make more money in our society" or "damn, I was hoping I could mooch beer and weed from you guys and mug on MTV Cribs with you."

Anyway, back to the actual topic at hand. If you get vinyl, shop around and be sure to factor in freight if you don't get it locally, because that shit is heavy (1 lb per sq. ft. for the good stuff).

Big, heavy drapes could be another option. Until today, I had never found a decent source for them. But today I found this: http://www.soundproofing.org/infopages/curtains.htm Toward the top of the page are heavy fabric drapes. Scroll down for mass-loaded vinyl (black and clear). Black vinyl is only $1.50 a square foot (comes in 4-foot wide rolls). Clear 1 lb. is a lot more expensive - about $6 a square foot. Clear Sheet-Blok from Auralex is $7 a square foot. I have about 9 windows (about 30 sq. feet each) I need to deal with. I might try doing some with clear MLV to keep the light, and the others with sheetrock or black MLV At $1.50 a square foot and with simple installation, the black MLV is pretty tempting.

[Disasteradio]

Many of the churches around me with the big leaded windows have external panes mounted on the outside.

yaya! we call this one "Secondary Glazing" and I think you'd be good to go with 6.38 dual-pane laminate glass.. (the kind used in shopfronts, two piece of 3mm with a glue layer in-between) .. That is if you guys can get it in the states. The combination of glazing and multiple air gaps would be pretty sweet at cutting out most of your mid / high bleed I'd imagine.

If you're going for glass front or back around the leadlight you'll still need a little air flow (gaps top & bottom both sides) around them as any condensation can contribute to the lead oxidising quicker and you might get all kindsa grimey crap on the inner faces eventually.

If you're offered acoustic "hush glass" or something check the attenuation levels of that stuff. The standard laminates we sell have about 90% of the reduction for half the price. (I mean, at that price you'd be better off ordering twice as much standard laminate and getting even more attenuation than hugh glass, if you could handle glazing two panes of standard instead of just one of hush.)

oh yeah, I'm a leadlighter with quite a bit of experience with commercial glazing .. my pa runs a "mom & pop" glass place that I've been at since I was 13, heh.

[I'm Painting Again]

thats a really beautiful space..I'm very jealous..

I relly don't think your going to have and sound proofing problems..at least none that are going to bother anyone out side the church..heating that place in the winter and cooling in the summer could be a problem, no?

edited for spelling