tapeop ribbon w/ 12AY7 pre? Yes?

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PT
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tapeop ribbon w/ 12AY7 pre? Yes?

Post by PT » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:14 pm

Does the EH 12AY7 pre amp have enough gain to amplify the tapeop ribbon mics that many of us have?

I'm thinking of buying a couple 12AY7's. But if they can't work with those ribbons I might consider something else.

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Post by ;ivlunsdystf » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:42 pm

Barely, unless you are mic'ing loud things like guitar amps.

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Post by stinkpot » Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:25 am

It worked fine for me. I haven't tried that pairing on vocals or acoustic guitar though. Just some percussion and electric guitar. Maybe an organ, don't remember for sure.

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Post by mjau » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:09 am

Maybe my one real complaint about the 12ay7 (aside from its shape) is the lack of gain.

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A-Barr
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Post by A-Barr » Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:19 am

Ever try substituting the 12AY7 or the other tube with a 12AX7? They are usually compatible but the 'AX7 has a lot more gain. It's generally safe to sub a high-gain 12XX7 with a lower one, so I can't garauntee that nothing will get damaged going the other way, but at least it's a cheap pre if something goes wrong...

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Post by JASIII » Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:24 pm

I've used the two together, and yes it will "work", but you have to really crank the pre and i ran a comp after and used the makeup gain from that. It can (will) add noise. I've used that combo on drum overheads and vocals. Agreed the EH pre's would be nice with more gain.
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Post by KennyLusk » Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:27 pm

I'm not offering any guarantee's either but I'll back up what A-Barr is recommending. I've used 12AX7's and 12AT7's in the EH pre with no problems.
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Post by jimbob » Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:25 pm

When I tried a NOS Sylvania Gold Brand 12AT7 in the first tube slot of the EH I noticed some distortion when playing an acoustic guitar aggressively (it was mic'ed with an MXL V6) but the signal was not clipping the A/D. This distortion disappeared when I put the stock tube back in. The 12AT7 did increase the gain and it sounded nice when it didn't distort, but I'm using the stock ones now since they don't have any problems (other than low gain).

I have a GT Brick and my main complaint about that pre is that it doesn't have enough gain as well. Both the 12AY7 and the Brick sound great in different ways (the former is open and detailed, the latter is thick and smooth), but I have to use other pres when I need lots of gain.

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Post by ryanlikestorock » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:27 pm

I'm finding the EH preamp has SO much gain... I think there's something wrong with 'em.

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Post by LDT2 » Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:29 pm

Actually, the tube on the left is the driver. If it's distorting then you need to put the 12AU7 back in the 1st slot 'cuz the 12AT7 can't drive that mic.

The right hand tube is the pre tube. That's where you can get some more gain with a 12AX7, etc.

I learned this via this post by the guy who designed the pre (read a few pages in);

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... &&start=30

Hope this helps,

Lucio

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Post by luckybastard » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:43 am

if you're looking for a tube pre with a ton of gain, the hamptone tube preamp has more than enough for ribbon mics...

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Post by jimbob » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:56 am

LDT2 wrote:Actually, the tube on the left is the driver. If it's distorting then you need to put the 12AU7 back in the 1st slot 'cuz the 12AT7 can't drive that mic. The right hand tube is the pre tube. That's where you can get some more gain with a 12AX7, etc.
Lucio
Thanks a lot for the info, Lucio. I don't know why, but I never tried the 12AT7 in the right side, which I (incorrectly) guessed was the driver. I guess I thought I would blow something up (like my $40 tube!). I'll try this and see how the sound changes.

-Jim Bob

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leigh
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Post by leigh » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:06 am

ryanlikestorock wrote:I'm finding the EH preamp has SO much gain... I think there's something wrong with 'em.
Hmm, really? That's not my experience.

Last week, as an experiment, I tried micing a quiet acoustic track with an sd condenser (a Crown CM700), and running that to the 12AY7 and into my ADC converter (+4dB input, and yes I was using the XLR out of the pre!). Because that wasn't enough gain, I added a channel of a Spirit board as a gain stage between the 12AY7 and the converters, and turned up the gain to get a decent level into the DAW (peaking around -12dB). Then, to compare gain, I removed the 12AY7 from the chain and used just the Spirit board (which, unlike the 12AY7, has a gain knob labeled with dB of gain). The numbers were like this:

setup A: 12AY7 cranked to max, Spirit board at +30 dB
setup B: Spirit board at +55 dB

If the math works simply here, that means the 12AY7, maxed out, was contributing only 25 dB of gain.

To be fair, I should note that the CM700 is one of the mics that makes the 12AY7's blue power light go out when phantom is turned on. The CM700 has a listed current draw of 3.2 mA. I don't think that's very high, but there might be some issue where a heftier power supply (er... wall wart) would fix the problem. There's more about that in this thread, although some of that info doesn't line up with my experience.

Leigh

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