tapeop ribbon w/ 12AY7 pre? Yes?
tapeop ribbon w/ 12AY7 pre? Yes?
Does the EH 12AY7 pre amp have enough gain to amplify the tapeop ribbon mics that many of us have?
I'm thinking of buying a couple 12AY7's. But if they can't work with those ribbons I might consider something else.
I'm thinking of buying a couple 12AY7's. But if they can't work with those ribbons I might consider something else.
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Ever try substituting the 12AY7 or the other tube with a 12AX7? They are usually compatible but the 'AX7 has a lot more gain. It's generally safe to sub a high-gain 12XX7 with a lower one, so I can't garauntee that nothing will get damaged going the other way, but at least it's a cheap pre if something goes wrong...
I've used the two together, and yes it will "work", but you have to really crank the pre and i ran a comp after and used the makeup gain from that. It can (will) add noise. I've used that combo on drum overheads and vocals. Agreed the EH pre's would be nice with more gain.
"If you will starve unless you become a rock star, then you have bigger problems than whether or not you are a rock star. " - Steve Albini
When I tried a NOS Sylvania Gold Brand 12AT7 in the first tube slot of the EH I noticed some distortion when playing an acoustic guitar aggressively (it was mic'ed with an MXL V6) but the signal was not clipping the A/D. This distortion disappeared when I put the stock tube back in. The 12AT7 did increase the gain and it sounded nice when it didn't distort, but I'm using the stock ones now since they don't have any problems (other than low gain).
I have a GT Brick and my main complaint about that pre is that it doesn't have enough gain as well. Both the 12AY7 and the Brick sound great in different ways (the former is open and detailed, the latter is thick and smooth), but I have to use other pres when I need lots of gain.
I have a GT Brick and my main complaint about that pre is that it doesn't have enough gain as well. Both the 12AY7 and the Brick sound great in different ways (the former is open and detailed, the latter is thick and smooth), but I have to use other pres when I need lots of gain.
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Actually, the tube on the left is the driver. If it's distorting then you need to put the 12AU7 back in the 1st slot 'cuz the 12AT7 can't drive that mic.
The right hand tube is the pre tube. That's where you can get some more gain with a 12AX7, etc.
I learned this via this post by the guy who designed the pre (read a few pages in);
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... &&start=30
Hope this helps,
Lucio
The right hand tube is the pre tube. That's where you can get some more gain with a 12AX7, etc.
I learned this via this post by the guy who designed the pre (read a few pages in);
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... &&start=30
Hope this helps,
Lucio
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Thanks a lot for the info, Lucio. I don't know why, but I never tried the 12AT7 in the right side, which I (incorrectly) guessed was the driver. I guess I thought I would blow something up (like my $40 tube!). I'll try this and see how the sound changes.LDT2 wrote:Actually, the tube on the left is the driver. If it's distorting then you need to put the 12AU7 back in the 1st slot 'cuz the 12AT7 can't drive that mic. The right hand tube is the pre tube. That's where you can get some more gain with a 12AX7, etc.
Lucio
-Jim Bob
Hmm, really? That's not my experience.ryanlikestorock wrote:I'm finding the EH preamp has SO much gain... I think there's something wrong with 'em.
Last week, as an experiment, I tried micing a quiet acoustic track with an sd condenser (a Crown CM700), and running that to the 12AY7 and into my ADC converter (+4dB input, and yes I was using the XLR out of the pre!). Because that wasn't enough gain, I added a channel of a Spirit board as a gain stage between the 12AY7 and the converters, and turned up the gain to get a decent level into the DAW (peaking around -12dB). Then, to compare gain, I removed the 12AY7 from the chain and used just the Spirit board (which, unlike the 12AY7, has a gain knob labeled with dB of gain). The numbers were like this:
setup A: 12AY7 cranked to max, Spirit board at +30 dB
setup B: Spirit board at +55 dB
If the math works simply here, that means the 12AY7, maxed out, was contributing only 25 dB of gain.
To be fair, I should note that the CM700 is one of the mics that makes the 12AY7's blue power light go out when phantom is turned on. The CM700 has a listed current draw of 3.2 mA. I don't think that's very high, but there might be some issue where a heftier power supply (er... wall wart) would fix the problem. There's more about that in this thread, although some of that info doesn't line up with my experience.
Leigh
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