Noise Complaints...

r0ck1r0ck2 · Post by **r0ck1r0ck2** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:06 pm

ahh
this evening i got a visit from the fuzz
the tenants in the new condos next to me have a problem

Eviction Notices...that's what i'm thinking...full tilt panic...

there's about 15 windows in my pad...we blast loud and drink martinis..

i would like to cover these windows with O.C.704...

will this help?

should i start selling amps?

i know there are about 40 threads on this but humor me..

Professor · Post by **Professor** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:33 am

Limp-mass vinyl like Auralex's SheetBlok is available in clear. You could get that and cover the windows in a sheet of it. For that matter, even a layer of rigid plexiglass would help. Rigid fiberglass will absorb high frequencies for better room acoustics, but it won't make your place 'sound proof'.

On the other hand, it is good know what the exact wording of the law is and how it works. Legally speaking, you can be as loud as you like on your own property (assuming here that you own the land beneath you and are not in an apartment complex) as long as you are below a particular level at your property line. In order to issue a ticket the police need to have an SPL meter in their hands and they need to measure a particular level (usually 65dBSPL C-weighted) at the property line. Don't let the nit wits hold the meter at your front door, because that's not where you have to observe the limits.
And the police can't simply issue a ticket "because the neighbors called". That would be like me saying I saw you speeding and having the police show up at your house to give you a ticket. To issue a ticket, the officer must measure the actual sound level at you property line. Otherwise you could file a harrassment complaint against the neighbors since they are obviously making false claims to the police to damage your reputation and try to coerce you out of the neighborhood. Right?

-Jeremy

r0ck1r0ck2 · Post by **r0ck1r0ck2** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:19 am

Professor you're a god send...

i live on the 5th floor of a converted (sorta) warehouse...

the windows are old and leaky...and 84" x 40" of glass (approx)
and there are 14 of them....my plants and i love it.
.the people who moved to the city tand want it to be quiet...well...

this has me soo freaked out i don't want these fools hearing a peep..

rigid plexiglass will knock the dbs down by approx how much...?

will i be able to record drums at 3am?

thanks again..

spankenstein · Post by **spankenstein** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:12 am

Definitely check the laws as well. In my town the noise ordinance is from 10:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m. on Friday and Saturday. There's something to be said for being a good neighbor as well. However, moving into the city and expecting quiet?!?

ubertar · Post by **ubertar** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:32 am

The law is going to vary from city to city, town to town. What's true in one place is not true in another.

jrsgodfrey · Post by **jrsgodfrey** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:34 am

I don't know about Milwaukee, but in NYC there are different rules for commercial and residential noise limits. It mostly has to do with time limits -- i.e., you may be able to make noise after 9am and before 9pm, but not before or after. You should check the underlying zoning of the warehouse you're in.

JGriffin · Post by **JGriffin** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:13 am

Keep in mind, too, that completely soundproofing your place may not make a whit of difference. They may just have it in for you. A few years ago I lived in a house in the Chicago suburbs, and had band rehearsals and recording sessions in the basement. One day the cops showed up, responding to a noise complaint. So we turned it down and kept playing. Next week, we came to rehearsal determined to play quieter and not attract the police...but they showed up anyway. Next week, we did all sorts of quick 'n' cheap sound muffling, played really quiet, had my housemate walk around the house to make sure we couldn't be heard past the sidewalks (which in our area was the definition of a noise violation) and the cops showed up again! So we tried an experiment. The next week, we made a big show of getting gear out of cars, walking into the basement door, and then set our cases in a pile and all sat down on the floor and waited. Sure enough, 25 minutes later, there's the police. We'd gotten to know them by this point.

"Hey guys, noise complaint again."

"Um, officer, look around. Clearly we aren't making any noise; there isn't an instrument plugged in or an amp turned on in the whole room."

"Wow, somebody's got a real hardon for you guys. Don't know what to tell you."

So basically we had to find somewhere else to practice because someone in our neighborhood had a problem with us. No one would admit to being the ones who called the cops; everyone we talked to said "oh, no, we like you guys and it's never too loud..." wtf?

r0ck1r0ck2 · Post by **r0ck1r0ck2** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:17 am

well i did talk to the head of the condo association..
he seemed quite reasonable....i'll hold off on thinking someone has it out for me...

and drums at 3am is a Bit of an exaggeration.. but not by far..
soo yes i'm definately on the loud side...

in talking to the cops they confirmed 10pm as the limit..
of course that's just not gonna cut it..

so how about those windows..?

i'm thinking a frame of 1" x 1" wif 1/8" plexi on the window side
and another layer of plexi at a 5 degree angle on the room side....

now if i could only find surpluss plexiglass...any ideas on that one?

Professor · Post by **Professor** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:37 am

Oh yeah, that's another thing, in order for the police to issue a ticket they need to be a witness and they need to identify the 'offended resident' as a witness. Maybe not to you personally at your front door, but if they want to issue a ticket, they can't respond to anonymous complaints. Otherwise you could sit in your house all day making anonymous complaints about your neighbors that they could never fight.
Personally, if I were in dwlb's situation I would tell the guy that I'm demanding my right to file a harassment complaint and would like the public records of all the calls made to the police department as evidence for my complaint. Now it wouldn't be any kind of fun continuing to rehearse there knowing you have some psychotic neighbor waging the legal wars with you. But I think you would have a lot of ammo on your side with a harassment complaint filed against the guy so that even he increased the complaints to tresspassing, vandalism or whatever, his statements would be tainted by the fact that he was known to be harassing you. I see running you guys out of the rehearsal space with noise complaints as no different then burning crosses on your front yard to scare off them colored folk who tried to move into town.

As for Rock1's troubles, it really sounds like you're in a building which may be zoned commercial. So I would head down to the zoning office and find out the zoning of your building and their building and find out from them if you are authorized to run a "24-hour manufacturing business" or something similar in that location. If so, then you are probably good to be as loud as you like 24-hours a day. If not, you might ask what changes you would need to make at the zoning level.
People do this everywhere, and especially in places like old manufacturing & warehouse districts where they get the bright idea to put in a bunch of trendy, high-priced lofts, or when people built houses right up against the outer fence of a major airport. Now you might have difficulty in that they may have petitioned to rezone their building as residential which could change your zoning to a business that borders residential land, but that is something you could contest especially if you were there first. Zoning boards have to consider the requests of the neighboring businesses or residents before rezoning for exactly that reason. Go learn your rights and you may be pleasantly surprised.

Now as for the window treatments, I'm not sure how much a layer of rigid plexi would help though I do know that the ClearSonic iso-booth I have in the studio is really quite effective. Limp-mass vinyl is probably more effective, but I'll bet you're hoping rigid plexi would be cheaper (as I'm sure it would be). I imagine that putting a layer of that over the window frames (leaving a 'dead' air gap between plexi & window glass) would drop your level outside the windows by perhaps 15-20dB and maybe more if you get in there with weather-stripping and/or caulk. But you would also lose the ability to open your windows for air. You might want to consider mounting a couple of the plexi-shields on a hinged frame so you can open them like shutters and then open the windows to refresh the air in the room while nobody is playing.

-Jeremy

r0ck1r0ck2 · Post by **r0ck1r0ck2** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:30 pm

hinged shutters?
thats the plan

ok now i'm confused...

for 1 layer of sound proofing
either plexi or limp mass vinyl..(LMV)

the price is around $1500 to $2000

1/4" LMV will drop 32db (stc)

whats a loud drummer usually playing at... 100db?

what about a full 4 piece
i'm looking for ball park figures

curtiswyant · Post by **curtiswyant** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:38 pm

What the hell are you expecting, recording drums in a condo after 10PM? You need to find somewhere else to record fo 'sho...

Rolsen · Post by **Rolsen** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:54 pm

I sympathize with you... and your neighbors. I'm a musician, play and record in a band, but would be super pissed if, in my own condo, I was getting rocked after 10 pm from the band next door. I'd first ask nicely, then I'd call the cops. I'm not trying to bust your balls, but If you're looking for another perspective on the issue, here ya go.

I'm moving to a new house with a bigger piece of property, modern construction (better insulated), and will go to great lengths to diminish band noise that escapes from my soon-to-be bandroom. I'm gonna have my drummer play while I walk the perimeter, then I'll ask my neighbors what they think - if its way loud, and my neighbors don't dig it, I'll pay for a shitty rental bandroom somewhere. It comes down to being courteous.

trodden · Post by **trodden** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:03 pm

condos suck, and the people who move into new condos in the old warhouse district suck as well.

It seems a new fucking condo is built every fucking month in seattle.

Our studio and rehearsal space is in the basement. we plugged the basement windows with multiple layers of sheet rock and insulation, sealed with 500 tubes of caulk. WIth that, and I-5 roaring away about 500 yards away, most of our escaping noise is swallowed up by the time it reaches our property line. Granted out neighbors can hear the bass frequencies since i'm sure the waves travel through the freakin ground and right into the neighboring house, we try to finish by 9:30 and everyone is cool. We play really really really loud doom metal so its pretty amazing just the few things we've done have cut down on the noise level. This has been going on for about a year and a half with no complaints, So it may end up being a schedule thing. Sucks if your zoned for making noise and you were there first, but as stated before, condo snobs suck and usually have nothing better to do than make a big deal out of things like rock and roll.

ubertar · Post by **ubertar** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:07 pm

I live in an apartment building and the drummer directly above me doesn't bother me-- neither does the drummer across the hall. But the ice cream man pisses me right the fuck off. And the guy downstairs bitches if I walk too loud.

trodden · Post by **trodden** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:13 pm

ubertar wrote:I live in an apartment building and the drummer directly above me doesn't bother me-- neither does the drummer across the hall. But the ice cream man pisses me right the fuck off. And the guy downstairs bitches if I walk too loud.

and when you talk into your new D12 to make sure it worked, He hated that as well.

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