ZZ Top Eliminator - Terry Manning post from prosoundweb

[cwileyriser]

I was doing a Google search to see if I could find any notes about where Spectra Sonics consoles were installed in the 60's and 70's and came across this really interesting post by Terry Manning on the ProSoundWeb forum. Manning engineered/produced/mixed/played at Stax and Ardent in Memphis in the 60's and 70's and now runs Compass Point in the Bahamas. FYI, there's also a cool article in the March issue of Sound on Sound about his recording of the Staple Singers' "I'll Take You There" and a tangentially related article in the April issue of Sound on Sound about John Fry's recording of Big Star's "September Gurls"

Anyway, here's the post from http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index. ... #msg_45901:

The full story of the making of Eliminator (the politics, the chicannery, the technical aberrations, the high social drama, the exodus, the payback) is one that I cannot tell. Even if I could, there certainly wouldn't be room for it here! It probably won't even make it into "the book" (or the movie). Just don't forget that truth is often stranger than fiction!

However, I will address certain specific musical or technical issues, and I'll begin with your guitar amp question.

THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO ROCKMAN USED ON THIS RECORDING!
Not a little bit, not a tiny bit; NOT ANY. I don't know how these stories get started. Billy may indeed have used Rockman at a later date, after I left the situation, but I did not allow it when I was working with him. He did bring one in to try, but I was not satisfied with the sound, compared to an amplifier.

The amp used, almost exclusively, on Eliminator was a Legend. This was about a 50 watt hybrid unit, employing a tube/valve preamp, and a transistor power amp. This is the amp which has a finished wood case, and a rattan-type cane grill. It has one 12" Celestion speaker. Legend were later bought by, or at least distributed by, Gibson, but they were independent when we started using them. I still have this amp; it is almost new. A couple of years ago I plugged one of the Eliminator guitars into it, just to see...there was the sound!

The guitars were custom built by Dean. Dean were out of Chicago, and were trying to break into the high end (a la Jackson, PRS) market. They were very nice, albeit different, instruments. Subsequently however, they got a contract with Sears to make guitars, so they opted for the big bucks, Korean manufactured, low end market instead. But the ones we used were very nicely made. There were two which we employed. One was somewhat like a cross between a Flying-V and a Moderne shape, very long "ears," and the other was a sort of a warped, pointy Stratocaster-y shape. Both guitars had a single DiMarzio Super Distortion high output pickup, and almost no controls. I don't think there is even a tone control...what would you need one for? They have big, heavy, brass bridge/tail pieces bolted into the body. These guitars were very live, very resonant, and would verge on resonant feedback at all times; they were also very hard to keep in tune because of this. But they were always alive. Billy has the first one mentioned, and he gave me the latter, which I still have.

The guitar was recorded with basically only one setup; one amp (Legend), one speaker (12"), one guitar (Deans, the two were almost exactly the same), one mic (AKG 414B-ULS, I still have it) in one position (about 5" from the cone, placed at a slight angle off axis), one mic pre (the SpectraSonics console). 98% of ALL guitar on this album, whether lead or rhythm was done this way. Any variations were from the player himself, who, remember, did not even have a tone control. That's how good Billy was back then. We did use very briefly a small amp by Ross, but we didn't like it much, and I think only a tiny part or two was kept from this, if any.

The rhythm guitars were done in a precursor-to-Protools style. Short phrases were played, and then double tracked, onto one set of tracks, and then the chord change/next phrase was played on a second set of tracks. This allowed a seamless transition between changes; since the Deans were so close to feedback at all times (acoustically, through the fairly loud JBL monitors), we couldn't even lift the fingers to change chords! Then I would trim the edges of each section by punching in and out to silence at the beginnings and ends of the phrases (somewhat analogous to "trimming the region" today). This method also "eliminated" to a degree the loud harmonic squeaks between chord changes. The punch in/out points, if done exactly perfectly, made for a primitive cross fade of probably 10-20 ms, and ended up sounding very different as rhythm guitar, sort of like a big train rolling down a track, almost out of control; without knowing how it was done, one wouldn't really realise why it was different.

For the leads, as always, there was a lot of punching done.

The bass was mostly played either by Billy or by me, and was either a bass instrument, or a Moog Source (the Source was a Mini Moog [rhymes with 'Vouge'] analogue synth with digitally controlled parameters...I still have this, too). Synth chords were played on a Memory Moog (polyphonic Mini).

Billy sang great, different vocals, as usual, and the harmonies were done either by Jimmy Jamison or by me.

There are a MILLION more things which could be told about this distinctive album, but as mentioned, most of it is probably better left unsaid. But one interesting thing, at least to me, was the recording of "Legs." We had tried it a couple of ways unsuccessfully at Ardent, so I decided to try a new approach. I had a 24 track studio in my attic at home, so I took Billy's lead guitar and vocal home on a 1/2" two track L/R ("samples"). I recut the entire track myself, and then hand flew in Billy's parts onto the track. This meant careful timing of the play button on my MCI 1/2", for each and every phrase, as after a few seconds, they would drift out of sync. I mixed it there through my Soundcraft 1200 console (these were also the mic pre's) onto the MCI 1/2". The multitrack was also the Soundcraft 2" machine, which I really loved. Then I did a totally different version, which became the long "dance mix" later released to clubs, and it is now included in the new box set. Later, I saw a review of this dance version credited, to Jellybean Benitez ...go figure!

Anyway, that's a lot about Eliminator for now. Thanks for your interest!

Terry

[Spark]

Yikes... Interesting! but yikes none the less!

[joeysimms]

Awesome, I just love reading that kind of stuff! Thanks for sharing.

[;ivlunsdystf]

So, is there still ANY confirmed use of the Rocktron on big-time recordings? I have always hung my hopes on Eliminator and now I find out that it didn't happen that way.

There was a great profile in the New Yorker a few months ago on Billy Gibbons. The reporter just sort of follows him around for part of a day, goes and looks at some high-end vintage Strat, has a Heineken with him etc. I wish they'd do an Ozzy-style reality show on him so we could observe his personal habits.

[Spark]

So, is there still ANY confirmed use of the Rocktron on big-time recordings? I have always hung my hopes on Eliminator and now I find out that it didn't happen that way.

I think i remember reading that Def Leppard used them on Hysteria.

[mertmo]

The liner notes of the vinyl pressing of "hysteria", IIRC, talk about the band using Randall amps, and I quote "for that RAD Def Leppard sound"...!

Yes I was that into the record back then, I still remember something stupid like that. I am still fascinated by the sound of those songs when I hear them on the radio. It's like a car wreck, beautifully filmed by a master filmmaker. You just have to watch, or listen in this case. Those recordings are horrible in their excess, yet they are gloriously huge and perfect...

ANYWAY...

Rockman on big time recordings:

Definitely "Highway to the Danger Zone" by Kenny Loggins. Rockman all the way.

"The Heat is On", by Glenn Frey.

Boston's "Third Stage" of course.

Several tracks on Robert Plant's "Now and Zen", including "Ship of Fools".
I specifically remember reading the details about the use of the Rockman on Now and Zen. I am guessing about the other ones, but if I am wrong I would be VERY surprised. That sound is so unmistakable.

I'm sure there are way more...

I had a Rockman, got it as a high school graduation gift in 1988. I thought I was the king of the world. It got stolen from me about a year later, and I have always been so glad! Even a year after I got it I knew in my soul it was nothing but cheeze.

[mertmo]

Just found this on ye old interweb:

http://www.thewho.net/articles/townshen/gp_89.htm

In this interview, Pete Townshend is talking about how "brilliant" the Rockman Sustainor is, and how he used it all over his album. He doesn't name the album specifically, but in the rest of the interview they are talking about "the Iron Man" a lot as it was his most recent release...

[KennyLusk]

So, is there still ANY confirmed use of the Rocktron on big-time recordings? I have always hung my hopes on Eliminator and now I find out that it didn't happen that way.

I think i remember reading that Def Leppard used them on Hysteria.

I'm still totally blown away by the sound they had on "High and Dry". That whole record stupifies me.

BTW that's a really cool and helpful post Chris, thanks.

[Spark]

I'm still totally blown away by the sound they had on "High and Dry". That whole record stupifies me.

That is one of the unheralded hard rock records of the 80s. Much better than the next two.

[cgarges]

So, is there still ANY confirmed use of the Rocktron on big-time recordings? I have always hung my hopes on Eliminator and now I find out that it didn't happen that way.

Dude, totally Boston.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[;ivlunsdystf]

So, is there still ANY confirmed use of the Rocktron on big-time recordings? I have always hung my hopes on Eliminator and now I find out that it didn't happen that way.

Dude, totally Boston.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

I just realized that I use 'Rocktron' and 'Rockman' interchangeably. Oops. Anyway, now that I think of those examples, that is quite a distinctive sound. Got it.

[cgarges]

Oh yeah, I read that as "Rockman," too!

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC