How To Get Into This Line of Work...

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matthewinphilly
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How To Get Into This Line of Work...

Post by matthewinphilly » Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:17 pm

Hello All:

Not sure if this is exactly the right forum for this, but given my options, this is my best bet.

So I'm wondering if it's at all realistic for me to consider being a working recording engineer, producer (I realize they're different...). I hope the following doesn't sound too self-obsessed, etc., but I figure some of you might be generous enough to give me some advice and keep it real and all.

Here's my specific deal:

I'm in my mid 30s and have been playing in bands since junior high, worked in college radio, at a decent record store in a midwestern college town. I love music a great deal--listening to it, playing it, recording it, etc. I play most instruments sorta okay, with guitar and drums being the only two I could reasonably claim to be sort of professional-level. Lots of my recording (with people at studios and home studios and by myself) has been in the one-dude-plays-everything-and-sings vein, which is neither inherently cool or not cool (though I'm increasingly more into collaboration), but just an indicator of what I can do as a musician. I put out a couple of records on indie labels (Bus Stop and Parasol) in the 90s and am currently in two bands, Capsize the Stars and The Lucky International ( myspace.com/capsizethestars and myspace.com/theluckyinternational ).

Being in my mid 30s and never really having the constitution for sleeping on floors and all of that, the idea of trying to "make it" as a rock musician doesn't appeal to me at all (notwithstanding the fact that lots of dudes (and they were all men) I know who got signed to major labels in the past 10/15 years are now in like Library Science masters programs or work in IT and the like, having come close to success, but seeing it fade quickly). My wife recently got a lovely job in the LA area of California, so I'm confronting the possibility of trying work at a recording studio.

Knowledge/experience/skills-wise in terms of recording, I have a very specific, limited set. I always had a 4 track tape thing back in the 90s, but didn't do a lot with it, preferring to demo songs in better studios that my friends had. 7 years ago I took two continuing-ed classes at the University for the Arts in Philadelphia--one on recording techniques, and one on digital recording. Luckily, I suppose, we learned Pro Tools in that digitial recording class, just as the Digi001 and the Apple G4 were about to come out. I got that stuff, a couple of mics, and started recording. A couple of years later I heard about TapeOp and started reading it cover to cover, faking my way through lots of it, and understanding more and more, the more I read and recorded myself. I eventually got a Digi002 Rack and then some better mics and some better mic pres. I've pretty much just recorded my self and the bands I've been in, which have included conventional guitar/bass/drums rock as well as more electronic/loop-based stuff.

My skills are limited to using Pro Tools LE, some of Apple's program Soundtrack (which is basically like Acid), and then two-track editors like Peak, DSP-Quattro, etc. I think my editing skills on Pro Tools are pretty good--like I've manually edited drums takes for adherence to the beat, etc.

Sounds-wise, I've got drums sounds I think are decent and like the way vocals I've recorded (my own and others') sound. On the other hand, I've never recorded amped-electric guitars in a way that rocked my ass. I definitely rely on presets in PlugIns for most of the effects I use, like reverb, compression, even EQ. That said, I'm starting to understand a lot of that stuff a lot more now.

This is already long, so I'll end here: I feel like there's increasingly a role for folks in music, maybe stemming from HipHop, where a producer/engineer/songwriter works with an artist on a song or a few songs, co-writing, recording, producing, etc. the whole thing. The Matrix, while perhaps way too slick and cheesy at times, are one example of this. Though I'm sure is sounds pompous and perhaps delusional, I feel like I could do this kind of stuff--not necessarily help write huge hits or whatever, but to work with folks on a few songs, supplying recording/engineering, music, and writing/production. Or maybe I'd love just engineering--I don't know.

In short--I'm saying I lack a lot of technical knowledge, but I think I have some ability and skill in the crafting of a song.

From reading a bit about this, I assume I'd have to intern somewhere, which I might be able to pull off money-wise for a bit. Is it possible to get an internship with so little formal training? Any suggestions for me? I realize this is an inexact career path, and that the technology that I've learned on is responsible for the death of lots of studios, so perhaps my timing is off by 20 years (too late...)?

Thanks for reading my ramblings and in advance for any advice you might have!
mp

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snuffinthepunk
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Post by snuffinthepunk » Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:08 pm

I imagine if you want to get right into producing you're just going to have to do some recording of bands of your own and do a damn good job of being their "producer" before someone will pay you as a producer. If a major label, heck even an indie label, is gonna pay someone to produce a band, they've gotta have some stuff under their belt. Find that "magic" band that you work well with (or artist, whatever) and focus on making their tracks the absolute best that you can fathom. Of course you'd have to build their trust first which could take some time. But, after doing that, once you're "producing" for small timers that may be making waves in the area, hopefully they'd want to insist that you work on their album if they get a deal. You could include a "right to first refusal" clause in a contract you sign with a band/artist that says legally that you get paid if the label that wants to pay the band doesn't want you engineering/producing the album. Just keep getting your chops up technically and trying to make the best music possible, and possibly in a few years or ten you'll be in the position to be a "producer."

As far as interning goes...hell, I haven't event started doing that really, I'm just tellin ya what I know. You seem intelligent enough, and anyone like you could learn to work any piece of gear. You don't have to have tech skills to intern somewhere, you just have to be the right person. No one wants a tech saavy asshole working at their facility, now do they? =)

Pound the pavement, meet people in the industry out there, make connections and contacts and friends with them. Sometimes it can be about who you know. You could also go for some other position at a studio, such as a "receptionist" or what not and make it known that you're interested in helping on sessions. One day if they need an extra hand somewhere, they might say "hey, you still interested in session work?" It's possible, it happens.

Good luck dude.
"no dream is worth being underachieved"
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Imagine the possibilities!

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matthewinphilly
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Thanks Snuffin!

Post by matthewinphilly » Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:28 pm

Snuffin:

I appreciate your time and thoughts on this. Good ideas re the band production/contract thing and getting any job at a studio. I totally agree that having some good stuff under my belt is the only way to get folks to want me to produce.

That said, part of me also wants to get to know gear a million times better like an engineer does--to really pay some dues and learn the nuts and bolts--and to one day know as much as and record stuff that sounds as amazing as Jon Brion's work.

I suppose that's the beauty, frustration, and mystery of the music industry all at once: knowledge of the technical stuff--be it music or engineering--only goes so far and a lot of the time it comes down to folks' ears or someone's unique phrasing or the way they strum their guitar or play a touch behind the beat or whatever that makes something special (and worth money...).

thanks again,
mp

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dokushoka
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Post by dokushoka » Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:38 pm

The BEST way to get good at it, and thusly get work on your own, is to surround yourself with people who are already really good at it, learn from them, then just keep working over and over again. Something that you need to know though, is that getting into this line of work means LONG hours. I typically work a 10 to 12 hour day. This means very little personal time can exist outside of the studio. If you have or want a family, this is NOT a good line of work to be in. However, if you truly love making records and have no other hang ups, then its great. :wink:

cgarges
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Post by cgarges » Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:12 pm

dokushoka wrote:The BEST way to get good at it, and thusly get work on your own, is to surround yourself with people who are already really good at it, learn from them, then just keep working over and over again.
A-freaking-men!

This applies whether you're talking about a school, a paid internship, a non-paid internship, or paying for studio time as a client and asking a lot of questions. Keep in mind that anyone who is benefitting from you're being there is probably more likely to keep you in their file of people they are willing to help out. For instance, a studio who has a freelancer bringing artists to their place to record is more likely to offer an available position to that person when it becomes available (assuming that person fits their needs) than someone they don't know at all. It's just good business.

It's great to spend time working on things and experimenting on your own, but it's even cooler if you can learn from someone good and then experiment to figure out what stuff of theirs you want to apply and what stuff you don't. Much of what I've learned from other people have been things I couldn't have learned from a book or on line-- specific things about developing my ears or hearing phase relationships or microphone placement or dealing with clients. And everyone's got different ways of doing things so the more time you can spend around a bunch of different people who are good at it (and in a position you'd like to be in), the more stuff in your bag of knowledge from which to choose.

Hope this helps.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

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matthewinphilly
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Thanks Peoples! Follow-up question...

Post by matthewinphilly » Thu May 11, 2006 6:00 am

Chris, dokushoka, Snuffin...

Your responses have been hugely helpful in thinking this stuff through. It's good to think about really concrete things like the overall weekly time commitment, or the time of day recording sessions often take place. Or also the reality that the producer/co-songwriter/collaborator role is a really different one than a more straight up engineer.

Anyway--I defintely appreciate the overriding advice to learn from others.

Given that advice, do you think that it's worth getting in touch with some studio owners in the area I'll be moving to to see if they'd be up for me doing some sort of limited internship/hanging around? I just don't think I'm near being at a level or in a position to bring a band or artist into a studio as the producer or engineer... What can I offer to a studio, other than willingness to learn and fetch stuff?

Thanks again,
mp

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