Mixing with Hardware - Hybrid

[T-rex]

So last year, I reached out to the engineer (Michael Kramer) and mixer (Jon Markson) of the Pile of Love self titled album. It has a sound that I love. A really nice thick low mid bloom that sounds warm and gushy but never muddy. I think it's the first album in a long time that sounds sonically similar to Superdrag's Head Trip in Every Key, which is an album that I love for both the music and the sonics.

They were both really cool and Michael gave me a full breakdown of the recordings. One of the things he mentioned was the RND 542 Tape Emulators. He uses these for tracking guitars, along with the Burl B1D, and was saying they just add great color to everything that passes through them. Internet hot takes are mixed but I picked up a pair and they do sound amazing. I can get close to them using some tape emulation plugs but never as good as the hardware. Also, they are super versatile although it takes a while to understand the gain staging and the curves and how they all interact. They live on two bus but sometimes I will reamp anemic tracks through them. The point is, with that - boom - I'm back to using hardware again. Well that's a lie, I actually bought a TC Electronic M2000 early last year. Again, I try and try to find a verb in the box that beats it, but I just can't make them sound as good as the gold plate on the hardware. Now, with the AMLs I get just a bit more oomph and 3d image than I can with plugins.

I don't want to or plan on buying a bunch of outboard gear for mixing but what's the point sound wise, price wise or workflow wise where you are just like, Fuck it, this sounds too good to not use recall / price be damned?

(Also, I'm not saying hardware is better than software or vice versa. I prefer the analog workflow (twiddling knobs) but sound wise I've been quite happy in the box for a long time and also, many many people are doing all ITB mixes that kill mine soooo)

[digitaldrummer]

I'm too lazy for mixing OTB. Or really, I'm just usually happy with what I can get ITB. I have OB hardware but most of that is for tracking and after that sometimes reamping (but I usually try plugins first). I only have one outboard EQ and it's actually really a preamp - a PM1000 channel - but I have used it for EQ - both for tracking and reamp. I'm considering getting another outboard EQ again, but haven't found the right thing yet (I had one of EQP-KT's once upon a time but sold it off pretty quickly).

[T-rex]

That's funny I was reading about the KTs earlier today looking at some cheaper Pultec options (opinions weren't great on them). I am eyeing the AML Pultec Kits, which are hella cheap to build considering the quality and options as well as the DIYRE Pultec kits which are slightly cheaper but very basic in comparison.

I think I'd like to be somewhere between ITB and Peter Katis' set up. I don't know if you've ever seen a walkthrough of his set up but it's insane. basically every sub-mix; drums. guitars, bass, Vox , etc. comes out through a ton of hardware and then gets summed back in. For the most part apparently he never adjusts the gear on the busses, just hits it differently based on the song etc.

[drumsound]

I use my console for summing and an analog mix bus chain. For years it was a Drawmer 1969, which I still think is a great compressor, it's got switched attack and release times. If I keep the threshold and makeup at 0, I could easily make a note in PT for the attack and release for easy recall. A few years ago I bought Rupert Neve 5424 diode bridge compressor and that has become my mix bus comp, and last year I added a Bereich03 BAX stereo EQ to follow it. The Neve is stepped, and the Beriech03 is switched (with a TON of great options) so they both recall well. I use the Snapshot plugin to put pictures of the chain right in the PT project for recall days.

[T-rex]

I use my console for summing and an analog mix bus chain. For years it was a Drawmer 1969, which I still think is a great compressor, it's got switched attack and release times. If I keep the threshold and makeup at 0, I could easily make a note in PT for the attack and release for easy recall. A few years ago I bought Rupert Neve 5424 diode bridge compressor and that has become my mix bus comp, and last year I added a Bereich03 BAX stereo EQ to follow it. The Neve is stepped, and the Beriech03 is switched (with a TON of great options) so they both recall well. I use the Snapshot plugin to put pictures of the chain right in the PT project for recall days.

I used to have a Drawmer 1968 on my 2 buss forever and I really dug it. That Bax eq looks really slick, especially for the price. That may be really tempting down the road. Care to elaborate on that EQ’s sound?

I do the same on the pics, in logic I can simply snap pictures and drop them into the session notes.

[trodden]

I've mixed through a console for summing and using outboard gear in many variations as the DAW slowly overtook a tape machine. Late 90's it was always tape or ADATs, early 00's still tape but by 2004, seemed half of my records were still tape, and other half were tracked to tape and dumped into PT or even started and ended in PT. Even after finally selling my Tascam MS-16 in 2015 to afford a used HD2 rig, after being on an old TDM Mix Plus system for years, and a Digi 001 before that, I STILL did a hybrid set up of going through a console to use its EQ's and still some outboard hardware, and even the last record that was not just a demo of something to come, was hybrid, but mostly just for summing, interfacing a Space Echo, and mixing into my pair of Burls for some of that sound. I'm now rethinking my usual templates and approaches that haven't changed much in the last 10 years, mostly because, damn, plug ins sound really fucking good now! Thinking of staying "in the box" completely (for actual records) for the first time. Sure, practice space demos and such were always completely in the box, but that was "acceptable" to me for reasons.

Part of me is still reluctant, so much I've been eyeing a used Dangerous D-Box whenever they pop up for less than $700 and building a DIYre passive summing box to also use with the BURLs. I still have the little AMEK Sidecar, but recall is much too difficult on it because it's upkeep has been difficult to keep up with. Seems something is always changing on it, performance wise.

I just seem to want and need to be patching crap up through a patch bay, sending signal through something more than just processing 1's and 0's. I guess that's because that's how I started, and thats how I taught myself to do this stuff? Maybe because I tend to work with more bands that are suited for that kind of production rather than slick, gridded, beat detected, modern stuff? I am looking forward to more ease in recall at least. And I don't think I could ever sell the Space Echo.

[T-rex]

When I downsized and got rid of my ghost, I bought a used D box. Honestly I wasn’t that impressed with it. It was a BIG jump going from the console to summing my 4 stereo busses etc so I may have been biased. But personally I didn’t get enough mojo out of it to justify not just going all the way in the box. Also the volume knob was a little noisy down at the low volume end of the dial. The unit looked pristine but it was used, so I don’t know.

The DIYRE summer is so cheap it would be worth building to see if there is a difference. Currently I am just patching the AMLs on the 2 buss. It would be interesting to compare the difference; same settings same mix bounce two versions and do some blind listening tests.

[trodden]

When I downsized and got rid of my ghost, I bought a used D box. Honestly I wasn’t that impressed with it. It was a BIG jump going from the console to summing my 4 stereo busses etc so I may have been biased. But personally I didn’t get enough mojo out of it to justify not just going all the way in the box. Also the volume knob was a little noisy down at the low volume end of the dial. The unit looked pristine but it was used, so I don’t know.

The DIYRE summer is so cheap it would be worth building to see if there is a difference. Currently I am just patching the AMLs on the 2 buss. It would be interesting to compare the difference; same settings same mix bounce two versions and do some blind listening tests.

I think the biggest draw for me to the D-Box is the additional A/D converter and monitor control/TB! But yeah, the DIYre will be fun experiment.

[Nick Sevilla]

For me, if a multi track is too clean sounding, I'll end up mixing OTB / ITB. I recently got a second Focusrite Rednet2, so I can now put all 32 channels of my Allen & Heath GL2800 used in mixing. I used to have to make stems in the DAW down to 16 channels, which worked fine, now for most stuff I will be able to put each instrument out to its own analog channel.

Still will be using ITB automation, but AFTER the analog channels, so that the gain going into the channels does not vary and mess up the tone. And when mixing it down, back into the DAW, I can set up a nice plug in master buss to treat the mix before recording the final mix audio. The way I'll be doing it is to record back into the DAW, up to 32 channels after EQing and processing OTB, and automating that for the final mix. A little extra work, but it also solves the issue if I ever get a newer console, the sound gets recorded pre-mix automation.

For stuff that is already crispy / toasty with analog goodness and distortions, I don't need to mix any of it OTB. There is such a thing as having issues with too much of small distortions in series, which then messes up EQ more than anything, and creates issues with frequency masking between instruments, a thing everyone needs to be aware of. And, you cannot undo those distortions once they are recorded, despite anyone claiming otherwise. They become "baked" into the whole frequency spectrum of a signal, there forever.