Internship Offer... Cutting the Grass?!?!?!?!

[christopher dwyer]

I have just moved to Los Angeles from Philadelphia Suburbs about 2.5 months ago.
I have been doing Music Production for 10 years now... Worked at a local studio, did freelance work, and ran my own home studio.
Right now its tough out here to find work, I am thinking about doing an internship so I can work my way up with an established studio.
I have an interview Thursday with this studio and the guy who runs it sent me and email saying a couple of weird things...
"If you are around a client, even if they ask for your opinion, as an intern you do not answer.. Period? "
And another thing...
"You will have the ability to learn a lot in many different ways. We are looking for people who WANT to learn, This is stuff you wont get out of a text book. You have to be highly motivated. This might sometimes include cutting grass and cleaning to being a roadie at a show or sending emails doing marketing for artists. This is to prove that you really really want this"
I don't mind getting my hands dirty at all and working my way up the ladder since I am new to the area.. but cutting this guys grass???
Maybe I am wrong here....
Any thoughts???

[ThePitz]

I think it would be extremely awkward if some dude asked your opinion on something and you weren't allowed to answer.

Also - if the studio has a yard - I can see maybe cutting that grass... Certainly not dude's yard. And certainly not being a roadie and flyering for bands. That has nothing to do with a studio. Unless it's an all-in-one label/studio...

Sounds like he might just be trying to get cheap bitch-work under the guise of a studio internship.

How nice is the studio?

[RoyMatthews]

Most studios want interns to be slaves and nothing more. It amazes me that there's still this 'hazing' process for people who just want to learn and give some effort back. The whole bullshit of 'wanting it more' is just so they can use you up and when you quit, well, you didn't want it enough. The amount of work that an intern is expected to do is nowhere near what they get back. At least that's what I've seen. Part of me want to open a studio just to have a structured, respectful intern program. Oh well.

[Snarl 12/8]

Been there, done that, didn't lead anywhere. I think some guys are looking for a very specific thing. Unless you walk in there wearing the exact right t-shirt and saying the exact right thing and offering the dude a bong-hit at the exact right moment you're totally screwed and they're too in denial to just come out and tell you. So, you wind up mowing grass further and further away from the studio, until basically, you're just driving around LA in a pickup truck, with a lawn mower all day. But at least you can tell other LA social climbers that you work in a studio.

I'd say it might be worth showing up for a week. But if the guys doesn't tell you "aw, forget about that grass bullshit, go out there and hang this Neumann." in the first week or so, I'd bail.

[JWL]

Yeah. Established studios are (for the most part) hurting too, don't forget.

It's one thing to have an intern, but if you have a track record and experience, then they shouldn't treat you like a janitor.

If it were me, I'd probalby just get my own thing going, especially if you have 10 years of experience.

[Waltz Mastering]

If you wanted to get your foot in the door of a studio you felt was worth the time to intern at, you have to be prepared to do what ever the studio needs you to do, whether that means cutting their lawn or cleaning their toilets.

[christopher dwyer]

I also forgot to mention he is video taping the interview process and he said do not knock on the door or come to the door on the interview date he wants me to send him a text and he will come out.
I don't mind getting my hands dirty at all but it just sounds like he is trying to make people do work he doesn't want to do.
I have a very strong work ethic (maybe its from years doing construction work) and it just sounds plain lazy to me.
Also I didn't see his studio yet he just contacted me through email.
Thanks guys

[RoyMatthews]

I also forgot to mention he is video taping the interview process and he said do not knock on the door or come to the door on the interview date he wants me to send him a text and he will come out.
I don't mind getting my hands dirty at all but it just sounds like he is trying to make people do work he doesn't want to do.
I have a very strong work ethic (maybe its from years doing construction work) and it just sounds plain lazy to me.
Also I didn't see his studio yet he just contacted me through email.
Thanks guys

He actually now sounds a little crazy or at least he's probably doing something illegal in his office. Don't knock or come to the door? What the hell. Should you avert your eyes too?

My guess is there's probably another studio or two in the LA area. And what makes the most sense is finding some bands and booking some time in the studios. Start a relationship with the owner/manager and you'll probably get some work or at least fill in work much quicker than if you started as an intern.
An engineer who books time is probably seen as more valuable and competent than an intern. Not saying he/she necessarily is just perceived as such.

[CurtZHP]

Yeah, what Roy said! This guy sounds like a nut, or he's got something shady (or downright illegal) going on behind closed doors. Then again, he may just be paranoid about security. (Believe it or not, some smash-and-grab theives gain entrance by simply knocking.)

In my own experience, cutting the grass or doing other light maintenance is not beyond the realm of possibility, as long as it's within reason. And in my case, I was getting paid for my time, so I was fine with it.

Like the other guys said, this dude sounds like he's just looking for a slave. I'd move on.

[red cross]

I have just moved to Los Angeles from Philadelphia Suburbs about 2.5 months ago.
I have been doing Music Production for 10 years now... Worked at a local studio, did freelance work, and ran my own home studio.
Right now its tough out here to find work, I am thinking about doing an internship so I can work my way up with an established studio.
I have an interview Thursday with this studio and the guy who runs it sent me and email saying a couple of weird things...
"If you are around a client, even if they ask for your opinion, as an intern you do not answer.. Period? "
And another thing...
"You will have the ability to learn a lot in many different ways. We are looking for people who WANT to learn, This is stuff you wont get out of a text book. You have to be highly motivated. This might sometimes include cutting grass and cleaning to being a roadie at a show or sending emails doing marketing for artists. This is to prove that you really really want this"
I don't mind getting my hands dirty at all and working my way up the ladder since I am new to the area.. but cutting this guys grass???
Maybe I am wrong here....
Any thoughts???

Just go for the interview. In 5 minutes you should be able to suss whether this guy's for real or he's an ignorant ass just looking for free labour.

For what it's worth, keeping your mouth shut when the clients are around is generally a good idea if you're an intern. By that, he probably means just smiling and giving a non-commital answer when asked for your opinion, instead of going into a 3 minute rant about how the drums lack "sparkle" or some shit. No working engineer in a session would want a smartass at the back of the room throwing in his two cents every couple of minutes when he should be wrapping cables or making himself useful.

As for cutting grass, well I've fixed studio toilet seats in the past and I was a freaking staff engineer for Chrissake. If something needs to be done, you just gotta do it.

[firesine]

You shouldn't be giving your opinion during a session unless you are producing or engineering, period. As an intern, you don't know where the producer is going with this project, what kind of psychology, philosophy or whatever he/she is throwing out there to get the band in the mindset they need to be in. By saying, "oh yeah I like that part" you might be undermining the producer who doesn't like that part and wants to cut it.

You have to know your place or you won't last long in a big studio.

Also, don't do anything you aren't comfortable with, but if you don't mow the lawn, somebody else will. How important is this opportunity to you?

[jmiller]

Doing non-audio related work as an intern (or paid runner, more preferably) is par for the course, especially in "big" markets like L.A. and New York. A working commercial facility can't just hire any old janitor because a janitor can't be trusted to help move and calibrate the ProTools rig, inventory the mic locker every night, answer the phone, and remember certain food/coffee/beverage preferences of frequent clients, etc.

On the other hand, if the studio doesn't know you from Adam, they likewise cant trust you to work too closely with clients. The clients are the lifeblood of the studio, and it is getting harder and harder to get them in the door, so they're not about to let anyone off the street sit in the control room operating the controls and talking to the clients about their stuff.

Every single runner or intern I have ever met had previous experience recording stuff "back home" where they got started, or in school, or working on live shows for years. This is valuable experience, but if it counted for much, they wouldn't have had to go knocking on doors looking for entry-level gigs.

It is true that some people take advantage of this and "haze" their interns, intentionally abuse them, and see how far they would go. There was one famous studio in which the owners would would bet on certain new interns, and then they would each try as hard as possible to get the other guys' choices to fail. That studio no longer exists, and that kind of hazing has become rare.

However, it's important not to confuse "hazing" with "hard nox". You are by definition starting at the bottom, so they're not going to just hand you a clear, linear and upwardly mobile career path the moment you walk in. That's not true in any other line of work, either. If you interviewed for a job as a janitor at a large office building, you would not expect them to train you to be a Human Resources manager once you started, even if that was your stated goal on your resume.

With regard to opinion giving, this subject comes up on every audio MB all the time and the answers are always split between those who have never worked in a commercial facility saying you should be able to say whatever the fuck you want, to the people who have worked in a commercial facility saying never never never open your stinky mouth ever. Again, in just about job in the known universe, there are standards of protocol, often unspoken, regarding what you can or can't say. A mailroom clerk can't just walk into the CEO's office and tell him that his business strategy stinks. He'll get fired.

What people often don't realize is that even the engineers on a project might be very careful about dispensing their opinions on a project. You never know whose toes you might be stepping on. If the engineer is that guarded with his/her opinions, they certainly don't want their assistant or intern getting them into hot water for them, do they?

I was once asked to take over assisting on a session for an extremely famous (and famously unstable) artist. The previous assistant got fired because he gave the artist his half-cocked opinions on the song they were recording. What he didn't seem to realize was that the songwriters were in the room with them. Guess who didn't want him back the next day?

With regard to this particular situation, this sounds like a privately owned and operated studio, perhaps at the engineer's home. These can sometimes be the best OR worst gigs. It's hard to say. The whole thing about not knocking sounds really weird. On the other hand, things are not always as they seem. Every studio in L.A. gets bombarded with calls and resumes every day, often from people who are total fucking idiots who don't know their left from right. The "no knocking" thing could just be to see if you can follow simple, basic directions. Such things can almost be necessary sometimes.

There's no harm in interviewing. The important thing to consider is what kind of work comes through this particular studio and will it be a worthwhile addition to your resume. If after 6 months of doing very little you may at least be able to get a better job saying you worked for so-and-so, and these are the projects you were there for, etc. Also, is this a "paid" internship/paying entry level job or is it an unpaid internship. If so, how long are you expected to work for free, etc. If it is indefinite, there's not much point to going through with it, you gotta feed yourself, right? But like I said, even several months of cutting grass at a reputable studio can be a step toward a better job somewhere else, if you play your cards right.

[christopher dwyer]

Thanks to everyone for the advice.
I asked the guy if he could send me a website or myspace to his studio or equipment list and he never responded back to me, but he did email me back pushing all the interviews to Friday.
This just sounds weird to me and I hope its not another Craigslist Flake.
JMiller I also live in North Hollywood in the NOHO district right near Magnolia and Lankershim I would love to talk to you sometime and hang out.
Thanks again guys.

[30Peak]

If you have 10 years experience and want to stay working in audio, you don't need to be cutting grass anywhere.

[CurtZHP]

That studio no longer exists,

I can't imagine why.