(Mixing) Multiple versions of the same song

[BobbyRay]

Well, IM ready to mix all the basic tracks on my first big project down to 2 tracks. Then I will be recording vocals and solos. People have stated that they have mixed multiple versions of the same song in this process. What different versions should I be mixing?

I recorded all basic tracks on a tascam TSR-8. I will be dumping them to CD then back to another reel so I will have 6 more tracks for whatever. The band has 2 guitars, bass, drums, some piano, and some percussion. I also recorded a scratch vocal track for reference.

Once again, what different versions of the same song should I be mixing?
Please don't hijack this thread, your answers are very important to me.

[aurelialuz]

i'm considering mixing a mono version of the album we're working on. not that i really want to shell out to press a mono version, i just like the idea and i figure, why not? i've already got the mix going.

alex

[BobbyRay]

I mean like maybe the snare or drums themselves having 3 different volumes per say on each version. Tips like that or am I completey off track on this one.
Should i just concentrate on one version of each song, I don't want to go back after I start tracking leads and vocals and remix cause the drums are too loud or the snare is too quiet.

[aurelialuz]

ideally, you're tailoring your mix to sound good on the most systems possible - i.e. good translation. so mixing multiple versions seems like a taste thing to me more than a necessity. i wouldn't be mixing, say, a "radio" version and a "hi-fi" version for example unless you're going to be putting both on the record (i would think not what you're going for).

but say you mix one, then give it a day or so, then try another one from scratch and compare the two, picking the better one. that's what i think about when i hear "multiple mixes."

alex

[angryaudio]

There is more than one way to skin a cat. When I hear multiple mixes, I think maybe one mix where the room mics on the drums are used to create more mood, or on another you try some real dynamic panning, whatever. Listen to them all and try and decide which one not only best captures the orginal vibe of the song but also works the best sonically. Be an artist. Paint with the faders and see what happens.

[jakeao]

In my situation with my little band, since we do the recording, mixing and other fun shit at my place, and the other members live out of state, I'll do a couple different mixes, with different instruments for example being more pronounced. Maybe one with some experimental effect use, and then mail them a CD with all these mixes for them to listne to to decide what works for them or doesn't. Then I take that feedback and do a final mix from there.

[joeysimms]

I think you have the general idea. Since you won't be able to fix individual levels after your external bouncing, you may want to try, say, a Drums up, drums down, Bass up, bass down, as well as the different panning and or effects that others mentioned. I wouldn't think 4 or 5 different mixes would be too much.

Just curious, how come you want to do external bounces, versus internal? Are you adding horns and strings?



Tom

[djimbe]

I mean like maybe the snare or drums themselves having 3 different volumes per say on each version

this is what I think about when the topic of multiple mixes come up. The hard part for you will be the fact that you don't have it all tracked, you'll be doing your different mixes on "sub-bounces". Often, this is brought up in relation to the mastering process, in order to give the ME some options in a search for the best mix. Stuff like a no vocals mix, a mix with vocal 3dB up and down, a mix with the drum buss 3dB up and down and so forth. Maybe go to www.digido.com and see what Bob Katz has to say on this subject...

[joeysimms]

The hard part for you will be the fact that you don't have it all tracked, you'll be doing your different mixes on "sub-bounces".

That's really important. I bounce internally, and I've had to learn the hard way to really think about what will be added later, and be sure your submix is compensating for that. Like making sure the snare on my drum submix almost sounds too loud when I bounce, so it doesn't get lost later..

[BobbyRay]

Just curious, how come you want to do external bounces, versus internal? Are you adding horns and strings?

I do not want to loose my basic tracks, this way I can always mix them over. I did do internal bouncing w/ the drums however I am not brave enough to record over the rest.

[joeysimms]

I do not want to loose my basic tracks, this way I can always mix them over. I did do internal bouncing w/ the drums however I am not brave enough to record over the rest.

I hear you, but I bet you'll get around to it sooner or later! I just thought since you had the basics already, whether you would use all 6 extra tracks for specific overdubs, or, 'just in case'.

I usually sub my drums to one track. Then, a stereo mix of guitars and or percussion / backing vocals. Sometimes even with bass. Then, I've 4 or 5 tracks left for main vocals, keyboards, solos, etc..

[@?,*???&?]

Sounds like you've still got some recording to do...

I would wait to determine what you'll require when mixing until you get a few mixes done. In the past for me, it's generally been about the 3rd mix or so when I've hit on the 'it' of the album mix-wise and I'll usually always go back and remix the first three songs over. That said, I'm a one mix guy. If it's wrong, it needs to be remixed. Many people do multiple versions and I've worked on projects with some big name guys that fill many, many reels of tape with superfluous mixes that will all sound the same after a years time. Bass up a 1/2 db and guitars down a 1/4 db just doesn't add up to any significant changes. Consider most mixing was manual in the 70's and realize that most mixes, if the song is well-arranged, really click when you hit that perfect balance without fader rides.

Hope this helps.

Actually just thinging about this again, I lie, I'm a 3 mix guy, but mix 2 is a TV Mix with backing vocals and Mix 3 is an instrumental version of the song.

[@?,*???&?]

Okay, I just posted some things in a few other threads about stereo buss compression and I want to note that I will occasionally print with and without buss compression at times if I am mixing in the digital domain.

[Professor]

I think the hardest thing you are going to have to deal with in your mixing is the fact that the vocals aren't there yet, and much of mixing will often involve getting the vocals placed correctly among the instruments. Let's say you make one perfect mix, fire it to CD, then back to a fresh tape, then layer in a great lead vocal performance and find that the guitar is a little too heavy in the mid-range and is covering up the vocals, but you can't just compress the vocals forward or EQ the mids out of the whole mix because everything gets thrown out of whack.
I would suggest that you record multiple "pre-mixes" so that you have some options when you go to put down the vocals. As long as the mix is up, it is easy to push things up and down a little and throw down multiple versions so you can come back the next day, listen with fresh ears, pick the 'best mix' and lay down a vocal part. Then listen to how that new vocal fits with the old mix. Anything sticking out, covered up, emphasizing or de-emphasizing particular frequencies? You might find that you will need to shift to a different mix to suit where the vocals are landing and it will be much easier if that mix is already sitting on the CD. Just take some notes as you record each potential 'best mix'.
One thing that might help is that you have a scratch vocal track. If the scratch track is recorded with the same mic you will use on the final overdub, you could mix the whole song with the scratch vocals in place, get everything to a perfect balance, then just mute the scratch track before going to the CD. Then you could turn the vocals up 5dB and remix, then mute again and send another track to CD. Then same thing with vocals down 5dB. If you will be using a different mic, then perhaps you could record over the scratch vocals (maybe make some safety mixes first) and then go through the above process.

You had the right idea with the snare drum, though really it is just about any instrument. If there is too much snare, kick, bass, guitar or anything else that obstructs the voice, it will be hard to fix after this vocal-less pre-mix is finished. In the end it may take you an extra 30 minutes to an hour and will leave you lots of options when you're done. And as Joel mentioned, you might get to about the third tune and realize that everything else needs to be remixed. There are times when I get really frustrated trying to mix a song and just stop and move onto another from the same session that will seem to mix itself in about two passes. And then I'll do another track with the same result and then back to the first track and it's right there where it should be. Fresh ears and a fresh mindset do wonders for troublesome mixes.

-Jeremy

[BobbyRay]

I also recorded a scratch vocal track for reference.