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Operation: Studio G Brooklyn CHAMBER
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elbows
alignin' 24-trk


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 50
Location: Ossining, NY

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Operation: Studio G Brooklyn CHAMBER Reply with quote

Pesticides age like wine.
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joel hamilton
zen recordist


Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 8878
Location: NYC/Brooklyn

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Operation: Studio G Brooklyn CHAMBER Reply with quote

roscoenyc wrote:
paint the brick with Plaster Weld
It will cover and seal the brick.

Even if you have a couple coats of regular paint on there you want to coat it with plaster weld then paint it.


Nice one. We will FULLY use this on a couple of the walls that are particularly textured. I skimmed it with some crazy stuff they had at Klenosky's, and that worked really well, but it would be great to get some plaster up on the walls for sound purposes.
Thanks Roscoe. I was looking for something like this and I wound up doing the skimming of the really fucked areas by hand. It will be awesome to go ovr those spots with some plaster weld.
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joel hamilton
zen recordist


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Location: NYC/Brooklyn

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Operation: Studio G Brooklyn CHAMBER Reply with quote

Labozza wrote:
Pesticides age like wine.


Matt, clearly you are a pesticide connoisseur. You dug right into that dungeon. Nice work, man.
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cgarges
zen recordist


Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 10819
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:06 am    Post subject: Re: Operation: Studio G Brooklyn CHAMBER Reply with quote

Very cool, Joel!

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
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Playing drums with Mitch Easter and The Spongetones
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roscoenyc
george martin


Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1266
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: Operation: Studio G Brooklyn CHAMBER Reply with quote

joel hamilton wrote:
roscoenyc wrote:
paint the brick with Plaster Weld
It will cover and seal the brick.

Even if you have a couple coats of regular paint on there you want to coat it with plaster weld then paint it.


Nice one. We will FULLY use this on a couple of the walls that are particularly textured. I skimmed it with some crazy stuff they had at Klenosky's, and that worked really well, but it would be great to get some plaster up on the walls for sound purposes.
Thanks Roscoe. I was looking for something like this and I wound up doing the skimming of the really fucked areas by hand. It will be awesome to go ovr those spots with some plaster weld.


Sure thing Joel.
I think of Plaster Weld as "extreme primer"

It's easy to get too.
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joel hamilton
zen recordist


Joined: 19 May 2003
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Location: NYC/Brooklyn

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:49 am    Post subject: Re: Operation: Studio G Brooklyn CHAMBER Reply with quote

This chamber now has an official name:

the DRUMGEON.

[crickets].

I laughed anyway....
More work after I finish the dub trio record this tuesday.
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Jon Nolan
tinnitus


Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 1084
Location: New Hampshire

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: Operation: Studio G Brooklyn CHAMBER Reply with quote

joel hamilton wrote:
This chamber now has an official name:

the DRUMGEON.

[crickets].

I laughed anyway....
More work after I finish the dub trio record this tuesday.


huffing humor? Wink

ps - i thought it was funny, but effing crickets follow me around everywhere, just waiting for me to crack a joke...
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Gregg Juke
ghost haunting audio students


Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Posts: 3327
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Operation: Studio G Brooklyn CHAMBER Reply with quote

Just a crazy thought (also from a non-acoustician, and someone with a lot less experience than you at making/using live reverb chambers):

Have you considered using some "outdoor" speakers? The kind they make for home audio enthusiasts to post in the backyard and leave out all year long? You mentioned the damp/humid conditions; I wonder if something like that might prove a little more hearty...

http://alloutdoorspeaker.com/

http://www.amazon.com/JBL-Control-Indoor-Outdoor-Speaker/dp/B000U2G6OW

http://www.buy.com/prod/bose-31763-outdoor-speaker-green-bose-outdoor-speaker-green/q/listingid/10940053/loc/111/202812581.html

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290031&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Home+Audio+Speakers-_-Polk+Audio-_-82290031

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546298-REG/Yamaha_NS_AW190WH_NS_AW190WH_Indoor_Outdoor_Speaker_Pair_.html#

GJ
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joel hamilton
zen recordist


Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 8878
Location: NYC/Brooklyn

PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: Operation: Studio G Brooklyn CHAMBER Reply with quote

Gregg Juke wrote:
Just a crazy thought (also from a non-acoustician, and someone with a lot less experience than you at making/using live reverb chambers):

Have you considered using some "outdoor" speakers? The kind they make for home audio enthusiasts to post in the backyard and leave out all year long? You mentioned the damp/humid conditions; I wonder if something like that might prove a little more hearty...

http://alloutdoorspeaker.com/

http://www.amazon.com/JBL-Control-Indoor-Outdoor-Speaker/dp/B000U2G6OW

http://www.buy.com/prod/bose-31763-outdoor-speaker-green-bose-outdoor-speaker-green/q/listingid/10940053/loc/111/202812581.html

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290031&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Home+Audio+Speakers-_-Polk+Audio-_-82290031

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546298-REG/Yamaha_NS_AW190WH_NS_AW190WH_Indoor_Outdoor_Speaker_Pair_.html#

GJ

I did think about it, yes. Most of them are too small to provide good sound at good sond levels to get up over the noise floor of a chamber in the city.
The ground is constantly kind of rumbling in NYC, no matter what you do. The stairway chamber at avatar has 2 15" and a horn ALTEC 603 (big reds) in there, moving a LOT of air when you have the send cranked up. I was printing it on a project, and we still had to reprint a couple because of a siren in one song, and some street noise from construction in another. That sort of thing happens here.
If I was in a more rural setting, or even suburban, I could probably get away with speakers like that. The one I chose is inexpensive, sounds pretty damn good, and moves a LOT of air.
Considering there will almost always be corrective EQ on the send, I just need it to move a bunch of air down there and get us as much S/N as possible.
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joel hamilton
zen recordist


Joined: 19 May 2003
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Location: NYC/Brooklyn

PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Operation: Studio G Brooklyn CHAMBER Reply with quote

We got one of the 3X3 pieces of cold rolled sheet steel mounted and tensioned down there today. its a PITA to get that stuff tensioned to the point that it actually sounds like something. Its really easy to get LF info happening, so thats cool, but to get any top end in a piece of steel that size seems to require serious tension.
Everything I know about making a plate, which is minimal and not from experience, is about choosing the right materials, and I dont have the right sheet stock... BUT: thiis is just for sympathetic "ring" that sounds good acoustically, so I am happy with it. Even just for some reflection it is good. With the re-pointed brick and now fully cured hi-gloss paint, we have just about a 1 second reverb time that is very pleasing when you clap in there. I am already super psyched about it as a drum/snare chamber. It needs a bit more decay time to really get useful for guitars or vocals, but it is really sounding balanced and quite good in there even right now. The metal we put up and tensioned seemed to extend the frequency response of the room more than add decay time... like adding more LF decay time so it sounds "warmer." (ugh I hate that word).
But for real, it does. More low mids in the decay makes it more musical. Happy about it.
Next step is wiring up the speaker and the mics. I am also going to wire up a freaky experiment mic, just in mono. A super cheap condenser epoxy'd to a piece of super thin sheet steel... like a PZM with a resonant boundary, basically. Using a cardioid so it still grabs some of the chamber but with the resonant boundary "afterglow."
Thats the theory, and I am going to at least try it. If it sucks, I will just go back to the other idea of putting the mono mic on a remote control car and being able to move it that way without a remote servo motor and boom.....
which may happen anyway. Like a 360 degree motor with a boom on it, and a single SDC on the end. ust to move the mic around for different sounds in mono, or WITH the stereo X/Y bar SDC's that we will tone and find the "best" spot for in the chamber and then mount them there permanently.
You can bet there will be EQ on the send... Wink
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sonicmook56
steve albini likes it


Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 357
Location: Echo Park

PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Operation: Studio G Brooklyn CHAMBER Reply with quote

This is rad, Joel.
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andris
gettin' sounds


Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 143
Location: oneonta, n.y.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Operation: Studio G Brooklyn CHAMBER Reply with quote

remote control car, fuckin love it.
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joel hamilton
zen recordist


Joined: 19 May 2003
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Location: NYC/Brooklyn

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: Operation: Studio G Brooklyn CHAMBER Reply with quote

UPS brought the speaker, waiting on the cheapo SDC's to start testing: in the middle of a record.The record i am working on is just so conducive to this sort of thing that I wanna have it happening, even if the tile isnt on the floor yet, just to send some sounds and start to see what we get... even if it is just EQ'd like crazy to make it work, the chamber will BE ON THIS RECORD. Wink
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JohnDavisNYC
ghost haunting audio students


Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 3035
Location: crooklyn, ny

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:54 am    Post subject: Re: Operation: Studio G Brooklyn CHAMBER Reply with quote

i'm gonna swing by after my session... i want to check it out!

john
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joel hamilton
zen recordist


Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 8878
Location: NYC/Brooklyn

PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Operation: Studio G Brooklyn CHAMBER Reply with quote

UPDATE:

So today we finally had a minute, so we got the ugliest tile, which was also the cheapest, at a home center type store. the stuff looks like amish-desert-triscuit nightmare, but who cares. its tile. Glazed, industrial, 12"x12" tiles. We put the tiles down on the floor just laying there. Not going to do any grouting at all. We are just laying a ton of tile down, including a second layer of very very shiny tile soon, maybe tomorrow.
After doing the sympathetic plate, and laying the tile on the floor, we did the wiring. Luckily I had run like 16 extra sends out to the live room in groups of 8 in some old snakes, and the pass through is actually in the chamber where it goes back up into the control room from the live room. I pulled 8 of the spare lines back down through and connected the speaker and microphone sends. It felt really good to be doing something normal like WIRE type stuff instead of high gloss stinky paint stuff or whatever..
Anyway, before I get into how it sounds now with all this stuff going on, I wanna say something:
Tensioning sheet metal is really fucking difficult. To get the sympathetic plate sheets to resonate at anything above 300 hz is going to require more tension than I can put on the current frame and corner reinforcements. I am going to build more structural supports to the frame we are using and then get a new piece of stainless steel and have corner reinforcements welded on, THEN, we will be able to put 2 turnbuckles per corner, applying more tension all around and hopefully getting some meaningful resonance up to like 500 or 800 hz. I hope so...
anyway, How does it sound? Incredible.
I really think it is going to be the drum chamber I have always wanted. RT-60 is roughly 1 full second. 1.5 total, but the 1 second tail is incredibly balanced right now with the tile on the floor, the metal stuff hanging, some plexiglass and glass surfaces to focus some reflections (as suggested in a few different books/blogs/info sheets) and the super high gloss paint.
I bet if we did some more plastering and smoothing of the brick wall, along with yet ANOTHER coat of paint we could get the RT up to 2.5 or more.
Sealing up a few places where the reflections leave the room? probably even more useable RT...
But for right now, I am super excited about the short chamber TONE that we have going on. 1 second of seriously balanced, really killer sounding verb/slap/diffusion.
the 1 second/ 1.5 second tail was what I was gunning for, and with more tension on the sympathetic plate, I think it will be an even better sound for voice.
I cant wait to hear a snare drum....
we are putting up the mics on a stereo bar tomorrow morning... updates soon after this thing is ROCKING!!!
new picture and more blabbing on the blog with the first chunks of tile on the floor....
http://www.joelhamiltonlivesloud.blogspot.com/
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