Headphone system advice needed.

[blackdiscoball]

Im looking at getting a new headphone monitoring system for my studio. As of now Im looking at the Furman Ha-6ab and the Furman HDS-6. I was hoping some people who have used these could give me some opinions on the quality of them. Things like how powerful they are (I do a lot of metal where drummers want to be deafened by the click) and the build quality, stuff like that. Also, I know the HDS-6 uses a some what special cable, how hard is it to get the stuff in custom lengths? Any advice would be very helpful. Thanks people!
_________________
myspace.com/blackdiscoballstudio/

[The Scum]

As a drummer, I'm usually happy to see the HDS6. Never had a problem with it not being loud enough, and having a vomume control that I'm in charge of is wonderful.

In studios with b-grade consolses or I/O, I've had problems with there not being enough sends to make effective use of the thing. It also makes the presumption that the folks on the phones are savvy rnough to mix their own phones.

The cable won't be an issue - it uses standard CAT5 Ethernet cable, 2 runs per box. Available in all kinds of lengths at computer shops, and you can also make custom lengths with an inexpensive cripmer tool.

[blackdiscoball]

Thanks, that helps a lot. Ive got a Tac scorpion so I have 4 aux's to work with but I was planning on mostly just sending clients a stereo headphone mix and only use the other channels if I really need to. Its mostly a future proofing issue. My only concern with the HDs-6 now is the whole daisy chaining thing. As of now I only need two, one for my vocal booth and one for my live room. Since they are both in different directions from where the base station is it seems like I would have to run a ton of cabling to go from the base, to my vocal booth, then back past the base station to the live room. Thats a ton of cable and not very convenient. Am I wrong about how this works?
_________________
myspace.com/blackdiscoballstudio/

[cgarges]

Those systems are kind of cool, but kind of lacking. I suppose that they're an easy solution, but it's amazing to me that in 2010 we don't have a better cost-effective system available.

Here's what's great about them:

1. They're relatively inexpensive.

2. They can get loud when set up properly.

3. They're kind of flexible.


Here's what's not:

1. One stereo and four mono inputs often seems like "not quite enough." For a band with two guitar players, bass, drums, vocals, and a click track, the setup becomes a little challenging in terms of everyone having individual control. The lack of a pan knob on the mono sends makes hearing individual guitars more difficult than it ought ot be. I would much rather have six individual mono channels with a pan knob on each than the stereo+ mono setup that exists on these.

2. The CAT5 cabling blows. That kind of cable was not meant to be plugged and unplugged and moved around. The connectors become really unreliable after time and the little "locking" end pins break off frequently. The guys at Electrical Audio wound up modifying all of theirs and although what they came up with seems smart, I think there's a better solution if you don't already have this system in place. (See below.)

3. The volume pots get dirty over time and can cause problems that don't seem like they're related to the volume pots. When they get dirty, the signal to the entire box seems like it's not loud or clear enough. The good news is that taking apart the box and cleaning the pots with Caig or similar contact cleaner usually makes the entire system sound better and louder (in addition to making it more reliable).

If I were building a place from scratch, I'd be far more likely to install a bunch of multi-pair wiring that comes up in the patchbay and feeds a series of small desktop line mixers like the Soundcraft Spirit Folios, Mackies, Soundtracs Mini Topaz, etc. All you need is a six-channel mixer for each separate heaphone mix and those little guys are CHEAP nowadays. Most of those have plenty of headphone volume available and you can get six or eight channel boxes with individual pan knobs and usually some form of EQ on each channel. If you need more than one output from each box, you can use an inexpensive heapdhone distribution amp and come out of the main outputs of each mixer and into that. Then you've got one box feeding the mix from the mixer to a bunch of sets of headphones. PLUS, if you have six individual sends from your console to the headphone mixers and the headphone mixers are eight-channel units, you can plug additional stuff into the headphone mixers for each player. Inner Ear in DC is set up like this and I loved being able to check tempos before each take with a little metronome plugged into the drum headphone station. That way I could get starting tempos without bothering the other guys. Useful stuff.

On a similar note, there's a studio in which I've done some work that records hired session guys for most of their work. These guys are perfectly fine with getting the control room mix sent to their headphones. That's cool for that studio's usual session flow, but they have no way to easily send more than one mix out to the studio, let alone something different from what's going on in the control room. When the band is tracking, I can't solo anything or listen to anything in groups without disrupting their headphone sends. I also usually have to listen to the click loud as day when the band is tracking. I find it hard to believe that in 2010, an $800 a day studio doesn't have an option for this. I'd MUCH rather have a decent cue setup available to me than the U67 that's there.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
_________________
www.chrisgarges.com
The Public Good - New album available now
Playing drums and hihat with Mitch Easter (GA, TN - Aug. 2010)

[cgarges]

Those systems are kind of cool, but kind of lacking. I suppose that they're an easy solution, but it's amazing to me that in 2010 we don't have a better cost-effective system available.

Here's what's great about them:

1. They're relatively inexpensive.

2. They can get loud when set up properly.

3. They're kind of flexible.


Here's what's not:

1. One stereo and four mono inputs often seems like "not quite enough." For a band with two guitar players, bass, drums, vocals, and a click track, the setup becomes a little challenging in terms of everyone having individual control. The lack of a pan knob on the mono sends makes hearing individual guitars more difficult than it ought ot be. I would much rather have six individual mono channels with a pan knob on each than the stereo+ mono setup that exists on these.

2. The CAT5 cabling blows. That kind of cable was not meant to be plugged and unplugged and moved around. The connectors become really unreliable after time and the little "locking" end pins break off frequently. The guys at Electrical Audio wound up modifying all of theirs and although what they came up with seems smart, I think there's a better solution if you don't already have this system in place. (See below.)

3. The volume pots get dirty over time and can cause problems that don't seem like they're related to the volume pots. When they get dirty, the signal to the entire box seems like it's not loud or clear enough. The good news is that taking apart the box and cleaning the pots with Caig or similar contact cleaner usually makes the entire system sound better and louder (in addition to making it more reliable).

If I were building a place from scratch, I'd be far more likely to install a bunch of multi-pair wiring that comes up in the patchbay and feeds a series of small desktop line mixers like the Soundcraft Spirit Folios, Mackies, Soundtracs Mini Topaz, etc. All you need is a six-channel mixer for each separate heaphone mix and those little guys are CHEAP nowadays. Most of those have plenty of headphone volume available and you can get six or eight channel boxes with individual pan knobs and usually some form of EQ on each channel. If you need more than one output from each box, you can use an inexpensive heapdhone distribution amp and come out of the main outputs of each mixer and into that. Then you've got one box feeding the mix from the mixer to a bunch of sets of headphones. PLUS, if you have six individual sends from your console to the headphone mixers and the headphone mixers are eight-channel units, you can plug additional stuff into the headphone mixers for each player. Inner Ear in DC is set up like this and I loved being able to check tempos before each take with a little metronome plugged into the drum headphone station. That way I could get starting tempos without bothering the other guys. Useful stuff.

On a similar note, there's a studio in which I've done some work that records hired session guys for most of their work. These guys are perfectly fine with getting the control room mix sent to their headphones. That's cool for that studio's usual session flow, but they have no way to easily send more than one mix out to the studio, let alone something different from what's going on in the control room. When the band is tracking, I can't solo anything or listen to anything in groups without disrupting their headphone sends. I also usually have to listen to the click loud as day when the band is tracking. I find it hard to believe that in 2010, an $800 a day studio doesn't have an option for this. I'd MUCH rather have a decent cue setup available to me than the U67 that's there.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
_________________
www.chrisgarges.com
The Public Good - New album available now
Playing drums and hihat with Mitch Easter (GA, TN - Aug. 2010)

[cgarges]

[cgarges]

[blackdiscoball]

Thanks for the replys. I don't really need the ability for them to make their own headphone mix and I was actually going to not let most of them and only really wanted it because it might be useful to have if it wasn't to much extra. Looking at the pictures on the Furman website the HDS-6 only has 2 ethernet outputs on back which are labeled read and gray so Im pretty sure you can only daisy chain them. I might just by the HA-6AB and just use that as its really all I need and since its cheaper Ill also buy some nice tracking headphones.
_________________
myspace.com/blackdiscoballstudio/

[cgarges]

Yeah, I see that it's only got the one set of outputs. The setup at the studio where I do the most work has those things running all over the place. I guess they split them at some point after the main outputs. Probably not too difficult to do.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
_________________
www.chrisgarges.com
The Public Good - New album available now
Playing drums and hihat with Mitch Easter (GA, TN - Aug. 2010)

[cgarges]

Yeah, I see that it's only got the one set of outputs. The setup at the studio where I do the most work has those things running all over the place. I guess they split them at some point after the main outputs. Probably not too difficult to do.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
_________________
www.chrisgarges.com
The Public Good - New album available now
Playing drums and hihat with Mitch Easter (GA, TN - Aug. 2010)

[iC]

[blackdiscoball]

So I imagine 2 plain old cat-5 splitters would work then? If I split it into two thats all I would really need since I could daisy chain them once they are in the two rooms. Has anyone tried this or no any reason why that wouldn't work?
_________________
myspace.com/blackdiscoballstudio/

[sir hills]

I have the HA-6AB in my mobile rig & really love it. Plenty loud, low noise & very simple. If you just need something to send the stereo mix & do it well it's hard to beat for the price. I also use a Rolls HA43 daisy chained out of one of the headphone sends when I have more than 6 folks monitoring.

[The Scum]

[kslight]

I find the system decent for the money, certainly better than a cue box IMHO. Not flashy but good enough. I picked mine up basically new off Craigslist with 3 boxes (2 still new in box) with cabling and the cat 5 splitter for something stupid cheap like $150. Totally worth it. I imagine if one were savvy it wouldn't be terribly difficult to make the mono inputs wired to the left or right headphone out for double tracking either.