Does anyone still mix / master without viewing WAVs ??

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Nick Sevilla
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Post by Nick Sevilla » Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:19 pm

cjogo wrote:We record to Masterlink for our final ...but, have to convert to MP3 back in the office PC
Do you realize that you just gave yourself a big shot in the leg?

When you record onto the Masterlink device you are in fact converting your audio into a PCM audio file, much like a "wav" that you seem to dislike so much.

And then you convert that into another type of PCM audio file in your office.

So, you are using digital audio files, although they may not strictly speaking be ".WAV" format.

And just because you do not use a computer monitor to see the waveform, you are still in fact using digital audio.

Food for thought...
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Post by JGriffin » Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:39 pm

cjogo wrote:maybe our clients just are better players??
Or they're just not very particular. That sword cuts both ways.

cjogo wrote:Must be the clients that force one to go to Wav editing??
Or the nature of the work; editing is 80% of my job. After editing miles of tape in the 80s and early 90s I was actually pretty thrilled to be able to look at a waveform (the scrub function on early DAWs was a marketing ploy to rope in tape-bound engineers who didn't get that editing sound visually is actually easier and much more accurate). I can rough-edit an entire radio spot from a well-prepped take sheet and waveforms in under five minutes and only have to hit play a few times. And with the brickwall-limited music I usually get from the music houses, trying to find a downbeat by scrubbing tape would drive me up a damn wall these days.

That's not even getting into what a pain in the ass working to picture with a 24-track is...holy psychotic break, Batman.
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Post by cjogo » Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:17 pm

So, you are using digital audio files, although they may not strictly speaking be ".WAV" format.

And just because you do not use a computer monitor to see the waveform, you are still in fact using digital audio.

Food for thought...
Yes, we understand we are recording wavs -- I just never grab a visual one > to edit . --- It not so much idea of working with the WAV > (Our DAW is a little sluggish ( Roland VS) and somewhat difficult to manipulate) I just never have the request to edit that precisely for our clients. Maybe if I saw the process demonstrated ~ found out it could be helpful, if the occasion arises in the future.

When we cut /copy/paste a track -- we do it by locate buttons == all by timing

I have performed quality punchins > on the fly for so long :: seems like it would be more time consuming to open up a wav on a screen ?
whatever happened to ~ just push record......

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Post by cjogo » Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:53 pm

dwlb wrote:
cjogo wrote:maybe our clients just are better players??
Or they're just not very particular. That sword cuts both ways.
The largest part of our client base > have been recording since the early 60's & 70's -- guess they never really touched much of the new technology... A major producer /client, for the last 3 years, does not own a computer > the label had to call or fax him for correspondence. Last weeks artist had his first album in like '65 >> these guys don't make to many errors when they enter the studio :: it's well mapped-out. Sure, there are changes but, a quick punch-on-the fly > and they are good to go. Guess I am coming from the early days of Beatles/ Hollies ~ making a song in a afternoon . :wink:

A client brought a engineer in with PT ( just used the studio to track ) -- never saw him edit any waves whilst they were here -- must be all post work ? Believe me if we needed to perform WAV editing to keep our clients ~~ I would be the first looking for lessons.
whatever happened to ~ just push record......

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Post by chris harris » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:39 am

This is one of the more peculiar cock measuring threads that I've read.

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:56 am

yeah.

personally i think being able to see the waveforms is one of the greatest things ever.

*hugs computer, buys wavelab a drink*

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Post by cjogo » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:59 am

subatomic pieces wrote:This is one of the more peculiar cock measuring threads that I've read.
I guess we are kind of a WAV haunting audio student...........just was inquiring what style of music :: needs a great deal of Wav editing . Not sure that a measuring status befalls our market. In that respect we are still infants.
whatever happened to ~ just push record......

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:01 am

cjogo wrote:Yes, we understand we are recording wavs -- I just never grab a visual one > to edit . --- It not so much idea of working with the WAV > (Our DAW is a little sluggish ( Roland VS) and somewhat difficult to manipulate) I just never have the request to edit that precisely for our clients. Maybe if I saw the process demonstrated ~ found out it could be helpful, if the occasion arises in the future.

When we cut /copy/paste a track -- we do it by locate buttons == all by timing

I have performed quality punchins > on the fly for so long :: seems like it would be more time consuming to open up a wav on a screen ?
honestly man, i bet if you just got a computer and whatever DAW software, within a week you'd be like "OMG this is SO much better, i can't believe i stuck with that damn roland thingy for so long."

i never worry about making a 'quality punch in'. i just record as many takes as it takes and cut 'em together. takes about 2 seconds per edit.

you ever have a vocal where there's lots of lip smacks/tongue clicks/whatever? when you can see the waveform you can go in and get rid of all that stuff totally transparently and the result is a nicer sounding vocal without any of that distracting crap. again, these edits take about 2 seconds each.

the fact that you can see what you're doing doesn't immediately turn you into some overediting, snap to grid maniac....

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Post by JGriffin » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:06 am

subatomic pieces wrote:This is one of the more peculiar cock measuring threads that I've read.
I apologize for my part in that. It was late.

Does this remind anyone else of the "Sorry Pro Tools Users" thread from a few months back?
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Post by vvv » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:29 am

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:

you ever have a vocal where there's lots of lip smacks/tongue clicks/whatever? when you can see the waveform you can go in and get rid of all that stuff totally transparently and the result is a nicer sounding vocal without any of that distracting crap. again, these edits take about 2 seconds each.
You know, I posted about this before as regards the work of a producer I shall not here name - who's stuff I like a lot both in choice of artist and sounds - but whose stuff drives me a little nuts with those "lip smacks/tongue clicks/whatever"s.

At this point, I actually find them a distracting, altho' sometimes endearing, reminder that I am listening to something recorded on a tape machine.

Hell, Tucker Martine? David Barbe? You guys listening? I actually buy stuff based on their involvement (ex., Jesse Sykes, and I got into DBT because I was -am- a Bob Mould fan.)

I just wish they'd do that extra editing step of cleaning up those kind of "artifacts" ...

Now, please, somebody tell me to STFU. :twisted:
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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:37 am

it won't be me, because i agree. <-rhymes

those sorta lip smack noises are super distracting. kinda disgusting in some cases. and i can hear them in the midst of a full on distorto guitar frenzy, they become really obvious once you know to listen for them.

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Post by Front End Audio » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:28 pm

My home setup currently is a four track recorder and an analog mixer so no wav files and computer screens for me. I am currently integrating a digital mixer into my setup so I will be looking at a screen but not a computer screen. I do use DAW rigs all the time so I do still work with wav files very frequently. I know that some people prefer one or the other but I like to utilize both as they are different tools for different jobs.

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Post by blackdiscoball » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:13 pm

I think its funny how some people think its either one way or the other. I have clients that go straight to tape,or sometimes straight to computer and I do absolutely no editing because that's what the style and genre they fall in to calls for or what they want. I also do artist (newer metal stuff) where we edit the songs to no end because that's what that style of music sounds like today and thats what they want. Both ways are great and if I tried to do them different it wouldn't work. Im lucky in that I have a very diverse client base that I can do these different projects and change it up. I think alot of people (I'm just generalizing) tend to stick to one kind of genre and so the work in one way that works and can't see the benefits of doing it a different way. Just my two cents.
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Post by cjogo » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:08 pm

http://www.the202alliance.com/images/eq ... screen.jpg

That's the screen I have seen for 10 +years -- more of a block-wav representing tape across a transport . If someday we change over ( Reaper is loaded in a PC ) > sure we will love to discover the fine-tuning Wav editing.

Not too much lip~smacking > Something I have always done since the 70's -- and I notice the singers , who frequenting are here, follow. You slowly turn your head at the end of phrase or back off from the mic ... also > the mic is always with a pop screen. The bottom of the mic > is placed to rest at the top of the nose ::expelling most sibilances /pops right past the diaphragm.
Last edited by cjogo on Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
whatever happened to ~ just push record......

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Post by cjogo » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:12 pm

blackdiscoball wrote:. I also do artist (newer metal stuff) where we edit the songs to no end because that's what that style of music sounds like today and thats what they want. . I think alot of people (I'm just generalizing) tend to stick to one kind of genre and so the work in one way that works and can't see the benefits of doing it a different way. Just my two cents.
We stick with a very narrow genre --- no metal / heavy rock / hiphop loops ~~ more pop/folk /jazz... the 45-65 year old. Solo/duo artist in our studio only.... could be my age showing a little & a extra quiet neighborhood > not wishing volume thrashed upon them.
Last edited by cjogo on Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
whatever happened to ~ just push record......

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