another compressor thread

[vapour trail]

Hi,

I know this is lame as a thread starter,

I torn between two units: a UBK fatso and a FCS P3s. I need a 2bus compressor, which will also serve me well on individual sources in my live rack.

the UBK for it's versitality and colour, 2 channel design. can also be used for live mixing (which I still do a lot of).

the P3s for its 2bus capabilities, transparent if needed, and general quality of design. More unique product.

In Europe though, it's still quite unclear to me how much the import tax will be for the FCS (it's actually a bit of a mystery under which category these things fall when processed at customs, any ideas?).
And so, the with the UBK I fear that as a 2bus compressor it will be useless to me when transparency is needed.

There you go, just throwing it out there to see if anybody can enlighten me : ) Yes I'm that bored right now.

best,

[joninc]

i have a UBK fatso and use it ALL THE TIME. it's REALLY VERSATILE. it can be more transparent - but if i want transparent i'd probably use the PRO VLA or a plug in. it rules in glue mode with some saturation to just soften the transients a bit. smooooth!

[joel hamilton]

Here we go again.... my rant is based on the curent state of internet bullshit concerning the idea of "transparent" or "colored." It fucking drives me nuts. really.

When is "transparency" needed?
I have something on the 2mix all the time these days, and it is tube, and has like 9 million of them in it, and also has like 19 transformers per channel.
Is it "transparent"? Sure, because I can hear it perfectly, and it sounds amazing, so it is transparent to the process of mixing a record. Does it change things when I patch it up on the 2mix? yes, so is it transparent in the sense that I can hear it? No. Would I want something on the 2mix that didnt make any difference at all, and I couldnt hear it? No. Whay the hell would I want that? I would rather not even send the mix through wire at that point, never mind some device that wasnt doing anything to help me get a great sounding mix happening.
Is an SSL bus compressor transparent? No. Is my 670 transparent? No.
To stay somewhat on topic, I would highly suggest you get the UBK if that looks like something you would like, and use it on fucking everything, because it is a great box, and not because it is "transparent" or "colored."
There is not one fucking thing we can do or use during recording that does not influence the way a source is perceived. Not ONE thing. I dont give a shit how many "fast" preamps we have available to us, like millenia or grace or whatever else people try and claim as "transparent."
It simply doesnt sound like a band playing in my living room. it sounds like a recording. Make a great recording and nobody (who likes music) will give a shit about whether you used all "color" stuff or all "transparent" stuff or both or whatever.
You will get great results from either box you referenced, and not because of color or transparency.

[emrr]

Go Joel! +1.

Everyone knows I champion the FCS units, and here I am again. I don't get calling it "transparent"; nothing is. Especially with those Carnhill output transformers. I might instead say it can really stomp and control without destroying the original sound or image, which I really value.

I don't own a Fatso of any variation, but I have owned Distressors for a dozen years. I don't consider them capable of the same sonic integrity, they bend the sound more. I never ever use the distortion modes on my Distressors, since I'm already using lots of other transformer coupled tube gear in my signal paths. My 2 cents.

I don't know how well the Fatso handles stereo signals. The FCS maintains the original stereo image exactly, and without any hassles, which is definitely not true of the Distressors.

The downside of the FCS is the fact that it's dedicated stereo, so it will only really serve one source well, and never two individual tracks.

[ott0bot]

Isn't Drawmer in the UK.....what about the 1968. Search for all sorts of praise on this forum. It's been on my "to buy" list for a while.

[joninc]

the UBK fatso is not like a distressor.

[vapour trail]

Thanks for the thoughts guys.
I wasn't being that empirical about the terms "transparent" and "colour" when i used them. I Just prefer a subtle dynamic enhancement on 2bus rather then a transient smasher, and I guessed the fcs is more suitable for this with it's low ratio control and flexibility. kid's gotta have a name i guess.

[Jon Nolan]

Here we go again.... my rant is based on the current state of internet bullshit concerning the idea of "transparent" or "colored." It fucking drives me nuts. really.

yikes!

i feel you, man. that said, folks is just using whatever language they can to describe the indescribable, no? in the end, yes, we're talking about whether a piece good or not, but there is a spectrum of sonic character that each piece has a place in, that needs SOME means of explanation, SOME sort of language to put people in the right neighborhood. I mean, personally, i don't expect "transparent" to actually mean i can't hear it - but i generally know what people are getting at. i don't get why this is crazy making.

ps - not trying to be annoying. just sticking my nose is where it doesn't belong, perhaps...

hugz an' sloppy kisses,
j-no

[joel hamilton]

Here we go again.... my rant is based on the current state of internet bullshit concerning the idea of "transparent" or "colored." It fucking drives me nuts. really.

yikes!

i feel you, man. that said, folks is just using whatever language they can to describe the indescribable, no? in the end, yes, we're talking about whether a piece good or not, but there is a spectrum of sonic character that each piece has a place in, that needs SOME means of explanation, SOME sort of language to put people in the right neighborhood. I mean, personally, i don't expect "transparent" to actually mean i can't hear it - but i generally know what people are getting at. i don't get why this is crazy making.

ps - not trying to be annoying. just sticking my nose is where it doesn't belong, perhaps...

hugz an' sloppy kisses,
j-no

Of course I understand the difficulty in defining a vernacular that can be used to discuss gear... hell, I moderate the GEAR TALK forum for tapeop for FREE, you know what I mean?
BUT:
The usage of the two words mentioned above has just become yet another hegemony-laden "statement-set" that seems to stem from advertising and co-opted "engineer-speak" from manufacturers rather than from a basic, honest need for a language to speak to each other on the internet.
Do a search, on any message board regarding audio production/pro audio/recording, and you will find things like, "I want something without transformers so I dont get that muddy buildup of a colored pre." Say what? WTF does that mean? Would you be bummed out that I just "used the console pre's" to record your band on the 8078 in Avatar's "A" room, also? Those pesky transformers and all... I even used it on the Hi-hat! A source with treble in it! I must be insane, I know.
I only get fired up about this because I think it does a young engineer, learning things from this messageboard, a real, true disservice to just watch these piles of crap get tossed around like gospel when I know better from experience. Sorry to sound like the curmudgeonly old grandpa about this, but the rants have their root in compassion, I promise.
Now about compressors for the 2mix:
An SSL works really well. A 670 works really well. A drawmer 1968 seems to work really well at the bunker. An elysia Mpressor works really well.
Whatever you can afford, and doesnt make it worse, is the #1 best compressor you can possibly get at any given moment in your life.
Just dont sell it when you get the next one.... thats the challenge.

[ott0bot]

I forgot to mention that I use a pair of stereo linked Summit Audio TLA-50's on the 2mix and drum busses all the frigggin time. I also track most of my vox and bass throught them....but the also work great on absolutely everything. I haven't found a source that they didn't add some mojo too. Bought them for $450 each direct from summit. Plus they set them to the exact same specs before the send them out, so match nearly perfectly. but you know....the Drawmer is about the same price used.

[jgimbel]

I forgot to mention that I use a pair of stereo linked Summit Audio TLA-50's on the 2mix and drum busses all the frigggin time. I also track most of my vox and bass throught them....but the also work great on absolutely everything. I haven't found a source that they didn't add some mojo too. Bought them for $450 each direct from summit. Plus they set them to the exact same specs before the send them out, so match nearly perfectly. but you know....the Drawmer is about the same price used.

Random question, how do you go about buying direct? Do you just email them asking about it? I've wanted a TLA-50 since I've seen some posts about it on here, it seems like a really nice piece of gear for the price.

[Ryan Silva]

Here we go again.... my rant is based on the current state of internet bullshit concerning the idea of "transparent" or "colored." It fucking drives me nuts. really.

Joel,

You make a good point, and I say this because I have been trying to climb out of the ?Learned everything about gear from the internet? too ?I worked with that piece of gear, and it worked great on?insert model number here?

But it?s hard nowadays, very few of the project studios out there are ran by engineers that have been, and worked at a million different studios. They only know their gear, they built there home studio so they didn?t have to go to ?Avatar? or ?Fantasy? or ?Tiny Telephone?. So advice, be it from advertisements, or trusted forums like we have here, is all that?s available most of the time. For me at least, that is finally starting to change.

Some common terms do get overused for no good reason, but some are quantifiable, for instance: ?Fast? well we can measure the speed at which electricity travels trough components, so ?Fast? to me makes sense. Bright: well we can see ?Bright? on a frequency chart, so once again I can understand when someone uses that as a description. But Warm? Full? Thick? Dark?, all a little harder to understand, and completely abused by manufactures, and upstarts like myself.

You know, if was just a engineer speaking to another engineer these terms would all be fine, but people are buying gear left and right based on these one word descriptions, and with that in mind, yes it has gotten out of hand.

Oh yes, the topic.

The Drawmer 1968, sounds Fat, Round, Deep, Wide, Gluey, Gooey, Clean, Warm, Dark, but really the most useful description I can give is it sounds ?Good?, and I could afford it.

Cheers

[ott0bot]

I forgot to mention that I use a pair of stereo linked Summit Audio TLA-50's on the 2mix and drum busses all the frigggin time. I also track most of my vox and bass throught them....but the also work great on absolutely everything. I haven't found a source that they didn't add some mojo too. Bought them for $450 each direct from summit. Plus they set them to the exact same specs before the send them out, so match nearly perfectly. but you know....the Drawmer is about the same price used.

Random question, how do you go about buying direct? Do you just email them asking about it? I've wanted a TLA-50 since I've seen some posts about it on here, it seems like a really nice piece of gear for the price.

Email or call Paul Grove at Summit, and see if they have some b-stock units in. He's super nice and helpful. I'll PM ya the contact info...since it's not exactly public.

[joel hamilton]

You make a good point, and I say this because I have been trying to climb out of the ?Learned everything about gear from the internet? too ?I worked with that piece of gear, and it worked great on?insert model number here?
Cheers

All the more reason to disseminate actual knowledge based on experience rather than repeating ad copy and weirdo-internet-trend-based opinions as "fact."

[emrr]

All the various terms that get thrown around do work, but only in a controlled situations where everyone already understands the parameters. Describing the sound of various transformers is really tricky, and there have to be comparisons that are understood or it's all meaningless.

I did compare the stock Fatso to the Distressors once, and heard similarities, but like I said, I'm not qualified to speak with authority. So there, I intended to extrapolate a bit, but could be considered guilty of ignorant trend speak.

The FCS will definitely stay unobtrusive if you want it to do so, and it will also go into full abuse territory. I consider it very flexible in that regard.