The budget breakdown
- @?,*???&?
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The budget breakdown
Okay, so the Musician/Studio Needs Survey results have presented this:
http://www.myspace.com/musicianengineer ... 4560556%7D
Let's break this down for a legitimate release. 70% of respondents said the budget for their next record is between $0 and $5000 dollars.
I am going to work backwards from the number of $5,000.
Manufacturing at Discmakers or Oasis CD Manufacturing:
$1000 to $2500 for 1000 CDs. This number can vary based upon the packaging chosen and the condition of the artwork at the time of manufacturing. Which leaves us with between $2500 and $4000.
Copyright registration $75 which leaves us with between $2425 and $3925
ISRC Registration is $75 for a year-long term which leaves us between $2350 and $3850.
Mastering, assume a project rate with a top name guy on the coasts doing one-pass mastering for the dirt-cheap rate of $1200. Leaves us with between $1150 and $2650.
Recording/Mixing, let's assume an hourly rate. I typically spend around 500+ hours producing and engineering an indie record. Assume I do so for a flat rate of between $1150 and $2650. That means I earn between $2.30 an hour and $5.30 per hour. (my real rate is $450 per song with no hourly clock).
Let's assume you're Chris Garges or Joel Hamilton who would likely work for $25 an hour. You could work for 46 hours on the project.
Assume they charge you $35 per hour. That means you could work for 32.8 hours on your project.
For an indie vocalist with average skills the vocal sessions would typically be 3 to 5 hours per song with compositing and tuning the spare word or so. For a 10-song record, the time required would be 30 to 50 for vocals alone.
How do records get made these days?
Does anyone pay anymore? I can understand why discs don't get mastered or manufactured, because money spent up front on the record takes that cash away.
It's interesting a real mastering guy gets paid more for that than the album production- isn't it?
How would you guys break down the $5000 budget for the artist?
http://www.myspace.com/musicianengineer ... 4560556%7D
Let's break this down for a legitimate release. 70% of respondents said the budget for their next record is between $0 and $5000 dollars.
I am going to work backwards from the number of $5,000.
Manufacturing at Discmakers or Oasis CD Manufacturing:
$1000 to $2500 for 1000 CDs. This number can vary based upon the packaging chosen and the condition of the artwork at the time of manufacturing. Which leaves us with between $2500 and $4000.
Copyright registration $75 which leaves us with between $2425 and $3925
ISRC Registration is $75 for a year-long term which leaves us between $2350 and $3850.
Mastering, assume a project rate with a top name guy on the coasts doing one-pass mastering for the dirt-cheap rate of $1200. Leaves us with between $1150 and $2650.
Recording/Mixing, let's assume an hourly rate. I typically spend around 500+ hours producing and engineering an indie record. Assume I do so for a flat rate of between $1150 and $2650. That means I earn between $2.30 an hour and $5.30 per hour. (my real rate is $450 per song with no hourly clock).
Let's assume you're Chris Garges or Joel Hamilton who would likely work for $25 an hour. You could work for 46 hours on the project.
Assume they charge you $35 per hour. That means you could work for 32.8 hours on your project.
For an indie vocalist with average skills the vocal sessions would typically be 3 to 5 hours per song with compositing and tuning the spare word or so. For a 10-song record, the time required would be 30 to 50 for vocals alone.
How do records get made these days?
Does anyone pay anymore? I can understand why discs don't get mastered or manufactured, because money spent up front on the record takes that cash away.
It's interesting a real mastering guy gets paid more for that than the album production- isn't it?
How would you guys break down the $5000 budget for the artist?
- Nick Sevilla
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Hi Jeff,
I have yet to come across an artist who has such a small budget.
Normally what I have seen is in the range of 50,000US to about 200,000US.
Usually my part of the pie depends on how much I am involved in.
I do not know whom answered your survey. They probably could not afford me to mix their record, as my cost could be more than what you put here as the entire album budget.
"Your mileage may vary" I guess...
I have yet to come across an artist who has such a small budget.
Normally what I have seen is in the range of 50,000US to about 200,000US.
Usually my part of the pie depends on how much I am involved in.
I do not know whom answered your survey. They probably could not afford me to mix their record, as my cost could be more than what you put here as the entire album budget.
"Your mileage may vary" I guess...
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.
- JGriffin
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These days I'd chop out the $2500 for replication and release it digitally, because no one is buying physical product anymore.
But I realize I'm drastically oversimplifying the situation.
But I realize I'm drastically oversimplifying the situation.
"Jeweller, you've failed. Jeweller."
"Lots of people are nostalgic for analog. I suspect they're people who never had to work with it." ? Brian Eno
All the DWLB music is at http://dwlb.bandcamp.com/
"Lots of people are nostalgic for analog. I suspect they're people who never had to work with it." ? Brian Eno
All the DWLB music is at http://dwlb.bandcamp.com/
1K isn't enough to make a record.
My band's first record was recorded and mixed for (I believe) around $900. Mastering was $650. The label took care of the rest: manufacturing, assembly, distribution, promotion. We sold the first 1000 copies, and the label ordered 1000 more = sustainability.
Of course there were tons of other "hidden" costs like equipment, strings, amp repair, practice space rent, etc. But since the band was our hobby/passion, we didn't care.
When there's a will, there's a way.
My band's first record was recorded and mixed for (I believe) around $900. Mastering was $650. The label took care of the rest: manufacturing, assembly, distribution, promotion. We sold the first 1000 copies, and the label ordered 1000 more = sustainability.
Of course there were tons of other "hidden" costs like equipment, strings, amp repair, practice space rent, etc. But since the band was our hobby/passion, we didn't care.
When there's a will, there's a way.
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I'll save you some time, Garges....
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHAAAA!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHAAAA!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!
Studio - http://www.hookechosound.com
Label - http://www.wearenicepeople.com
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Label - http://www.wearenicepeople.com
Band - http://www.depthandcurrent.com
Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/HoodEchoSound
- the finger genius
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- joninc
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more realistic numbers, atleast IMHO:
Manufacturing at Discmakers or Oasis CD Manufacturing:
$500 for 200 cds plus BANDCAMP (free)
Copyright registration nope
ISRC Registration free
Mastering, assume a project rate with a decent ME $500
Recording/Mixing, let's assume an DAY rate. $400/day times x 10 days = $4000
- 6.5 tracking days and 3.5 to mix 10 songs
Let's assume you're Chris Garges or Joel Hamilton who would likely work for $25 an hour. You could work for 46 hours on the project.
AS IF THEY WORK FOR $25 AND HOUR - YOU ARE INSANE - TRY DOUBLE OR TRIPLE THAT
Manufacturing at Discmakers or Oasis CD Manufacturing:
$500 for 200 cds plus BANDCAMP (free)
Copyright registration nope
ISRC Registration free
Mastering, assume a project rate with a decent ME $500
Recording/Mixing, let's assume an DAY rate. $400/day times x 10 days = $4000
- 6.5 tracking days and 3.5 to mix 10 songs
Let's assume you're Chris Garges or Joel Hamilton who would likely work for $25 an hour. You could work for 46 hours on the project.
AS IF THEY WORK FOR $25 AND HOUR - YOU ARE INSANE - TRY DOUBLE OR TRIPLE THAT
the new rules : there are no rules
- joninc
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it's crazy to pay peanuts for the recording and then go top end mastering and pressing 1000 cds which you will NEVER SELL.
i say make the recordingm/mixing budget the bulk of it - there are loads of mastering options that are decent - relative to this budget - in the $500 - $700 range.
i say make the recordingm/mixing budget the bulk of it - there are loads of mastering options that are decent - relative to this budget - in the $500 - $700 range.
the new rules : there are no rules
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Re: The budget breakdown
1. nobody with a $5000 total budget should even be thinking about one of the top name guys for mastering. there are plenty of excellent ME's who would do the record for about half your $1200 figure. i'd do it for about a 1/3 of that.@?,*???&? wrote:Mastering, assume a project rate with a top name guy on the coasts doing one-pass mastering for the dirt-cheap rate of $1200.
2. "one pass" mastering isn't mastering, and no matter who's doing it, it's not worth $1200.
hoo boy.Let's assume you're Chris Garges or Joel Hamilton who would likely work for $25 an hour.
either you don't know any decent singers or the guy i just recorded is a freakin' genius. we did 8 songs in a couple hours. how on earth can you spend 3-5 hours PER SONG? you make the singers do 60-100 takes???For an indie vocalist with average skills the vocal sessions would typically be 3 to 5 hours per song
with microphones. in rooms. same as always.How do records get made these days?
got client's cash in my pocket right now.Does anyone pay anymore?
i suppose this is true if you're hiring BOB LUDWIG to master your record, but as stated above, no one with these kinds of budgets is hiring bob, or ted jensen, or greg calbi, etc. moot point.It's interesting a real mastering guy gets paid more for that than the album production
give me half and do what you like with the rest.How would you guys break down the $5000 budget for the artist?
- @?,*???&?
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joninc wrote:more realistic numbers, atleast IMHO:
Manufacturing at Discmakers or Oasis CD Manufacturing:
$500 for 200 cds plus BANDCAMP (free)
Burned, not pressed. Therefore won't be taken seriously anywhere you send it. Also, likely a fragile medium that won't last as long as a pressed CD due to dye problems.
An amateur mistake not to go through www.copyright.govjoninc wrote:Copyright registration nope
So instead of having your publishing tracked and paid to you- you'd rather it was paid to whoever issues you the ISRC's? BAD decision.joninc wrote:ISRC Registration free
More on that here:
http://usisrc.org/faqs/general.html#Q6
Could be. Cheaper rates are out there, but no top name guy is gonna do this for you. A kid in his basement won't be able to deliver a Red Book CDR and embed ISRC and UPC in the digital data.joninc wrote:Mastering, assume a project rate with a decent ME $500
I'd hate to hear how unfinished the mixes sound with 4.2 hours of work on them.joninc wrote:Recording/Mixing, let's assume an DAY rate. $400/day times x 10 days = $4000
- 6.5 tracking days and 3.5 to mix 10 songs
Nope. Engineering rate for Garges and Joel are right around $300 for a 12-hour day. That's the rate. If you pay more, you're getting raped. You can certainly pay less. Unless you've got management negotiating your deals, more than that isn't gonna happen.joninc wrote:
Let's assume you're Chris Garges or Joel Hamilton who would likely work for $25 an hour. You could work for 46 hours on the project.
AS IF THEY WORK FOR $25 AND HOUR - YOU ARE INSANE - TRY DOUBLE OR TRIPLE THAT
If Garges owns his studio, he might do a package thing- but then what are you paying for? Gear for X hours? or him?
Last edited by @?,*???&? on Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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