The budget breakdown

[@?,*???&?]

Okay, so the Musician/Studio Needs Survey results have presented this:

http://www.myspace.com/musicianengineer ... 4560556%7D

Let's break this down for a legitimate release. 70% of respondents said the budget for their next record is between $0 and $5000 dollars.

I am going to work backwards from the number of $5,000.

Manufacturing at Discmakers or Oasis CD Manufacturing:

$1000 to $2500 for 1000 CDs. This number can vary based upon the packaging chosen and the condition of the artwork at the time of manufacturing. Which leaves us with between $2500 and $4000.

Copyright registration $75 which leaves us with between $2425 and $3925

ISRC Registration is $75 for a year-long term which leaves us between $2350 and $3850.

Mastering, assume a project rate with a top name guy on the coasts doing one-pass mastering for the dirt-cheap rate of $1200. Leaves us with between $1150 and $2650.

Recording/Mixing, let's assume an hourly rate. I typically spend around 500+ hours producing and engineering an indie record. Assume I do so for a flat rate of between $1150 and $2650. That means I earn between $2.30 an hour and $5.30 per hour. (my real rate is $450 per song with no hourly clock).

Let's assume you're Chris Garges or Joel Hamilton who would likely work for $25 an hour. You could work for 46 hours on the project.

Assume they charge you $35 per hour. That means you could work for 32.8 hours on your project.

For an indie vocalist with average skills the vocal sessions would typically be 3 to 5 hours per song with compositing and tuning the spare word or so. For a 10-song record, the time required would be 30 to 50 for vocals alone.

How do records get made these days?

Does anyone pay anymore? I can understand why discs don't get mastered or manufactured, because money spent up front on the record takes that cash away.

It's interesting a real mastering guy gets paid more for that than the album production- isn't it?

How would you guys break down the $5000 budget for the artist?

[Nick Sevilla]

Hi Jeff,

I have yet to come across an artist who has such a small budget.
Normally what I have seen is in the range of 50,000US to about 200,000US.
Usually my part of the pie depends on how much I am involved in.

I do not know whom answered your survey. They probably could not afford me to mix their record, as my cost could be more than what you put here as the entire album budget.

"Your mileage may vary" I guess...

[JGriffin]

These days I'd chop out the $2500 for replication and release it digitally, because no one is buying physical product anymore.

But I realize I'm drastically oversimplifying the situation.

[cgarges]

I am going to have a field day with this when I've got a few minutes on a regular computer.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Bro Shark]

You're like the last guy left on myspace. Are you sure it's not bots responding to the surveys?

[cgarges]

I think those overall budget numbers are plenty accurate. I don't see a problem with that part of the survey.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[@?,*???&?]

I think those overall budget numbers are plenty accurate. I don't see a problem with that part of the survey.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

Right, but imagine if the budget was $1000- which 35% of the respondents said it would be!

[Bro Shark]

1K isn't enough to make a record.

My band's first record was recorded and mixed for (I believe) around $900. Mastering was $650. The label took care of the rest: manufacturing, assembly, distribution, promotion. We sold the first 1000 copies, and the label ordered 1000 more = sustainability.

Of course there were tons of other "hidden" costs like equipment, strings, amp repair, practice space rent, etc. But since the band was our hobby/passion, we didn't care.

When there's a will, there's a way.

[chris harris]

I'll save you some time, Garges....


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHAAAA!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!

[@?,*???&?]

I'll save you some time, Garges....


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHAAAA!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!

What are you going on about? He agreed you silly git.

[the finger genius]

So a legitimate release, what has a bar code? And this legitimate survey was done from your myspace page?

[joninc]

more realistic numbers, atleast IMHO:

Manufacturing at Discmakers or Oasis CD Manufacturing:
$500 for 200 cds plus BANDCAMP (free)

Copyright registration nope

ISRC Registration free

Mastering, assume a project rate with a decent ME $500

Recording/Mixing, let's assume an DAY rate. $400/day times x 10 days = $4000
- 6.5 tracking days and 3.5 to mix 10 songs

Let's assume you're Chris Garges or Joel Hamilton who would likely work for $25 an hour. You could work for 46 hours on the project.

AS IF THEY WORK FOR $25 AND HOUR - YOU ARE INSANE - TRY DOUBLE OR TRIPLE THAT

[joninc]

it's crazy to pay peanuts for the recording and then go top end mastering and pressing 1000 cds which you will NEVER SELL.

i say make the recordingm/mixing budget the bulk of it - there are loads of mastering options that are decent - relative to this budget - in the $500 - $700 range.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

Mastering, assume a project rate with a top name guy on the coasts doing one-pass mastering for the dirt-cheap rate of $1200.

1. nobody with a $5000 total budget should even be thinking about one of the top name guys for mastering. there are plenty of excellent ME's who would do the record for about half your $1200 figure. i'd do it for about a 1/3 of that.
2. "one pass" mastering isn't mastering, and no matter who's doing it, it's not worth $1200.

Let's assume you're Chris Garges or Joel Hamilton who would likely work for $25 an hour.

hoo boy.

For an indie vocalist with average skills the vocal sessions would typically be 3 to 5 hours per song

either you don't know any decent singers or the guy i just recorded is a freakin' genius. we did 8 songs in a couple hours. how on earth can you spend 3-5 hours PER SONG? you make the singers do 60-100 takes???

How do records get made these days?

with microphones. in rooms. same as always.

Does anyone pay anymore?

got client's cash in my pocket right now.

It's interesting a real mastering guy gets paid more for that than the album production

i suppose this is true if you're hiring BOB LUDWIG to master your record, but as stated above, no one with these kinds of budgets is hiring bob, or ted jensen, or greg calbi, etc. moot point.

How would you guys break down the $5000 budget for the artist?

give me half and do what you like with the rest.

[@?,*???&?]

more realistic numbers, atleast IMHO:

Manufacturing at Discmakers or Oasis CD Manufacturing:
$500 for 200 cds plus BANDCAMP (free)

Burned, not pressed. Therefore won't be taken seriously anywhere you send it. Also, likely a fragile medium that won't last as long as a pressed CD due to dye problems.

Copyright registration nope

An amateur mistake not to go through www.copyright.gov

ISRC Registration free

So instead of having your publishing tracked and paid to you- you'd rather it was paid to whoever issues you the ISRC's? BAD decision.

More on that here:

http://usisrc.org/faqs/general.html#Q6

Mastering, assume a project rate with a decent ME $500

Could be. Cheaper rates are out there, but no top name guy is gonna do this for you. A kid in his basement won't be able to deliver a Red Book CDR and embed ISRC and UPC in the digital data.

Recording/Mixing, let's assume an DAY rate. $400/day times x 10 days = $4000
- 6.5 tracking days and 3.5 to mix 10 songs

I'd hate to hear how unfinished the mixes sound with 4.2 hours of work on them.

Let's assume you're Chris Garges or Joel Hamilton who would likely work for $25 an hour. You could work for 46 hours on the project.

AS IF THEY WORK FOR $25 AND HOUR - YOU ARE INSANE - TRY DOUBLE OR TRIPLE THAT

Nope. Engineering rate for Garges and Joel are right around $300 for a 12-hour day. That's the rate. If you pay more, you're getting raped. You can certainly pay less. Unless you've got management negotiating your deals, more than that isn't gonna happen.

If Garges owns his studio, he might do a package thing- but then what are you paying for? Gear for X hours? or him?