OH and room drum mic Techniques

[trodden]

What's everyone's current OH and Room setup these days for rock/punk/metal?

I've been in camp ORTF for 20 years. I just started doing spaced pair the last couple of years. What makes you decide on which? I usually have a far stereo room spaced pair (87s 10 ft high on stands, in each corner) as well as a mono or a M/S front of kit (4-5 feet from drumbz), then the "down the hall" mic. I'm thinking of scrapping the the mono or M/S front of kit (Coles 4038) and maybe placing it "over the drummers shoulder style. So basically a three mic spaced pair. Thoughts? What about a far Blumlein set up instead of the far spaced pair?

[digitaldrummer]

My drums are always setup, so for most everything I'm using a spaced pair. I was using a pair of AKG c414b-uls, but last year switched to a pair of Lauten LA220 v2 for overheads. Mainly so I could free up the 414's for other things. The Lauten's are a bit brighter, but they have some filter switches that I've got engaged and that helps to where they sound a lot like my 414's did and I've also gotten used to them I suppose. I like them though. And why spaced pair? Because I set them up and I liked them in my room so I had no reason to change it. These go into A-Design P1's.

During the pandemic I messed around with some Glyn Johns/Recorderman setups (I was using 4 mics) and those worked out pretty well for certain material, but sometimes I wanted the separate close mics. For those I mostly used a pair of Warm WA-87's on overhead.

For room I've got a couple AT4033's that are semi-permanently mounted up in the far corners of my studio (opposite the drums). But... they are facing toward the wall, and into the corners, but those corners are where a vaulted ceiling meets the wall -- so there are weird angles there. But the idea is that the mics are catching those odd reflections and not just the straight on sound. makes the room sound a bit bigger than it is. I initially had them on some tall stands (Ultimate Support MC125) but I liked them enough that I mounted some short goosenecks off the wall so I could use my stands elsewhere. That's why I say semi-permanently. I could move them but I've got 10 foot [15 foot to the vaulted ceiling] walls so I need a ladder to reach them. These go into a pair of Hairball Coppers.

sometimes I will put a mic out front, or in other different spots, but that's mostly just experimental stuff.

[drumsound]

I'm mostly an ORTF on an angle bisecting the BD and SD. If I go spaced it's usually toward the outside of the set, and I drop a mic cable too the floor to make sure then they are off axis for anything. I have been thinking about trying a 'close spaced pair' with a slight angle outward. It's something I've seen in Blackbird photos.

Currently, the OH mics are Muro AC7, but I did it with MC012s for a long time.

I've got Røde TF5 on desk stands pointed at the opposite wall to the drums right now. I think I'll change that soon. I have some remote playing, and it's easier to mess with room mics then because the room isn't full of players.

[vvv]

we have been recording full band live, lately, amp'd up

so, Studio Projects C4's in XY 3' in front, centered on the snare, 5-6' up - I did just buy one o' those printed ORTF clamps (at Reverb) that I'll get around to trying ...

57 or 58 or a old AKG (lately D6000) at the snare rim, 45 degree angle pointed at the center

Senn 602, 6" from the floor, pointed up to kick center (no hole)

we record inna small house (drums in the living room, bass amp in the hall, guitars in kitchen and bedroom, lead voc 12' in front of and facing the kit) so I get bleed in the other mics and I like to use the bleed, e.g., when a BV mic is only bleed on the track I'll nuke that and bring it up under, in and out in different place in the mix; I'll do that with the lead vocal track sometimes, like under the intro, outtro, "middle 8"*

I only have 8 tracks in my recorder so I use 4 on the drums, 1 each on the bass and guitar, 1 on the lead vocal - if only 1 guitar then I have the other for BV

I have occasionally messed up an OH track when breaking down the full session to indiv songs and so end up with 1 OH - I tend to use a bigger plate on the snare when I do that, pan the OH at 1:00 or so - no one has said anything the 3 or 4 times I hadda do it lately

I have also used only OH's a few times because it sounded cool; I lost the snare track a cuppla times (same reason as above) and the OH's and kick were used - no one seemed to notice, particularly when I duped an OH and gated it to just the snare to trigger a big plate


* our songs' "middle 8" usually happens 2-3x and is anywhere from 8 to 32 or even more measures

[trodden]

My drums are always setup, so for most everything I'm using a spaced pair. I was using a pair of AKG c414b-uls, but last year switched to a pair of

Nice. 414 b-ULS are my go to OH mics at one studio I do a lot of tracking in. If i'm at my own studio, it's either MK-012's in ORTF or Warm Audio WA-14 spaced.

For room I've got a couple AT4033's that are semi-permanently mounted up in the far corners of my studio (opposite the drums). But... they are facing toward the wall, and into the corners, but those corners are where a vaulted ceiling meets the wall -- so there are weird angles there. But the idea is that the mics are catching those odd reflections and not just the straight on sound. makes the room sound a bit bigger than it is.

This is exactly what the 87's are doing when I'm tracking at the regular tracking studio. At home, it's usually just a modded TOMB ribbon on the far corner since it's a much smaller room.

[trodden]

If I go spaced it's usually toward the outside of the set, and I drop a mic cable too the floor to make sure then they are off axis for anything.

I'm not understanding this. Sorry, late night. you don't want your spaced pair's capsules "looking" directly at any drum or cymbal?

[trodden]

- I did just buy one o' those printed ORTF clamps (at Reverb) that I'll get around to trying ...

I've been looking at a couple different 3d printed ORTF clamps. That would chill my OCD so much as well as free up a good 5-10 minutes of me fucking around with them.

Also an e602 (first version) user for like 20 years. I have moved over to Beta 91 a few times in the last year. I can't tell which I prefer, there's always an outside of kick mic (LDC) with both those mics.

[drumsound]

If I go spaced it's usually toward the outside of the set, and I drop a mic cable too the floor to make sure then they are off axis for anything.

I'm not understanding this. Sorry, late night. you don't want your spaced pair's capsules "looking" directly at any drum or cymbal?

That is correct. Cymbals (esp crashes and hats) sound a little better to me when they're a bit off axis. So I literally will point the capsules toward the floor between them. If I point them at the sanre and the floor tom, they then sound like snare and floor tom mics, but being a bit outside the whole set keeps that from happening as well.

[Recycled_Brains]

OH - Spaced pair usually, sometimes an over-the-shoulder mic too, but I don't know if that counts. I should try ORTF more. I remember doing it once and liking it.

For room it's usually a Blumlein setup a few feet out with a pair of ribbons, and I like a mono or [if I have enough tracks left] an M/S setup further back.

[vvv]

related, of course is how you mix those tracks:

my drummer and bassist want more cymbals

up to now, I had lo-passed the kick 4dB at 7K onna easy slope, level at -12dB

and lightly high-passed the snare 2dB at 160Hz, mebbe added 1.4 dB little at 1.5K, level at -10dB (before compression and reverb, which I then lower to -14dB)

And I dropped the OH's 2-4dB at 160 and boosted 2dB at 7k (default points on the DAW mixer)

the above got me a full, thick two-mix

so, now I took the OH's down 12dB at 400 with 4dB added at 7K, going from using the OH's as 50% of the full-range submix to using them only to add top and cymbals, using the kick and snare as the main 2-mix sound for snare, toms and kick

this is giving me a balanced, bright two-mix

EDIT: all the info re EQ references shelves at like 12dB, except the 1.2K on the snare which is at a 1.3 Q

[T-rex]

I’m with Drumsound, ORTF all the way. Since I first tried it I just can’t be happy with anything else; and it just sounds so right.

I’m using Oktava Mc-12s that I modded back in the day. I recently bought one of the Dachman 87 clones and I’m gonna try that mono with the Oktavas. It has a really nice mid forward smack as a mono OH. It has a really natural sounding top end, whereas the oktavas never sound harsh but they are bright. Gonna see if I can bring the Dachman in to tighten up the center next time I track.

Room mics are usually fat heads pretty far out from the drums, equadistsnt to the snare. And I use a condenser in a tile bathroom down the hall that sounds ridiculous. It’s mono and blended with the room or instead of the room mics.

[mjau]

I’m currently in a small room with some treatment (but could use more). ORTF angled so it’s on a line with the bass drum and snare, as Drumsound describes. I get them in pretty tight - about 6’ high and on a vertical plane with the outer rim of the bass drum. They’re effectively cymbal mics, without bringing in too much boxy room sound. Does pretty ok for lighter drumming, especially with brushes.

Recently picked up a pair of AT4051’s after using mc012’s forever. They’re solid sdc’s.

[Recycled_Brains]

I just tried my new pair of Beyerdynamic M930's on Sunday and am pretty thrilled with them. I've been struggling for a long time with OH mics, typically settling on a pair of sE VR1 ribbons or Coles (I know, woe is me), and while both are great it really is different than a nice pair of SDC's in terms of how the whole kit fits together. My only other SDC pair is Josephson C42s. I love them on lots of things, but they are very case dependent as OH's.

[andychamp]

Lately I've been favoring a single LDC (currently either a MG UM70 or Brauner Phanthera), above the snare, as the only OH.
BUT...I augment it with a stereo x/y setup, about knee-high, in line with the snare and kick, and at the same distance from the snare as the top mic. These 3 mics alone will give me a great picture of the drumset.
If the cymbals are an important feature of the tune, I will add a pair of Coles4038. One each centered over each cluster of cymbals, and still at the same distance as mic #1. These mics will get fader rides during mixdown.
For room perspective, I like two EV 635a, set up practically touching the opposite wall, acting like PZMs, roughly forming an equilateral triangle with the kit.
Finally: close mics on individual drums plus trigger sensors on kick and snare (can be replaced by a kick beater mic and the close snare top mic).