if someone asks you to work for free...

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frans_13
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if someone asks you to work for free...

Post by frans_13 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:21 am

We all have been asked, regardless of our profession, the same typical situations - I put together a short list we maybe should give those who ask us. It applies to substandard rates as well. What do you think? What would you reword or add or omit?


So you want stuff done for free. I have to make a few things clear before we go on.

It's not for free, apart from sunlight not that much actually is. It just means the WE pay for it, at least with our time, aquired expertise, with our investments in our tools, too. Let me repeat that: You are asking for a GIFT.
You should consider this:
1-if it's done, say "thank you" - really, some people completely forget to do that.

2-use it. When it's finished, use it. Some people think "oh, it didn't cost a cent, we don't need to use it." That translates to "The idiot gave it to me for free, it's worthless."
Don't ask me about the idiot part, but either way WE paid for it and you decide to bin it. There actually IS a black list, you know?

3-people that pay have a say, don't they? WE are paying. Even more, we have some expertise in these things, because if THAT wouldn't matter, your aunt Larry could do it as well and you wouldn't have to ask us. Chances are, we know what works and what doesn't and we give advice to prevent you from shooting yourself in the foot. If you won't consider our advice it means you think we don't know what we do but you came to us because we DO know.

4-make up your mind what you need and then take time to formulate your ideas. We absolutely hate to do stuff over and over again because you can't make up your mind or keep changing it because your nephew's 'friend', ex-inmate, former crack addict has an "opinion". Does HE pay? No? You don't want to end up on our black list of death, seriously.

5-don't tell us this job will be our ticket to fame. The chances are bordering zero and we aren't THAT desperate / already famous / contemplating our future in real estate anyway / etc.

6-we know others that do jobs like our's. It's up to you what kind of story we have to tell our colleagues. If you end up on the black list it could happen nobody ever wants to work with you. As a matter of fact I'm writing this because I warned a friend about this guy and told him to charge double and make sure to cash a sizeable sum in advance.

7-"It's not much work, innit?" / "It's no work at all, innit?" Sorry to wake you up, but - does that matter? It's worth something to you, because you think you need it. It may be ten minutes here or twenty minutes there, believe me, it adds up. I can remember putting together a list for a freeloader "client" that showed all the "no work" I did for him as a reminder

8-So when you have our work-- would you please not fooookitupp? Would you, or your aunt's nephew (see #4) please not mess with it, change it, wreck it and then, with the work mangled and marred and ruined present it as if WE did that? Or if we ask that you'll leave our names off it, be insulted?

9-Sometimes we have paid work with urgent deadlines. Would you please consider that your budget (remember = zero) makes your stuff less likely to be of the highest priority, sometimes. So think twice before you get pushy.
Last edited by frans_13 on Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

jhharvest
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Post by jhharvest » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:43 am

I'd replace this with a list of one item:

1) Don't work for free, unless you want to be treated worthless.

That said I do graphic design for free sometimes. He's a friend of mine who does summer camps for orphans. They have no money. He respects what I do and I respect what he's doing. It works.

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A.David.MacKinnon
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Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:30 am

jhharvest wrote:I'd replace this with a list of one item:

1) Don't work for free, unless you want to be treated worthless.
+1. Even insisting on a minimal/symbolic payment is better than working for free because it makes sure that the "client" has some investment in the final product.

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Post by chris harris » Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:50 am

The more you try to explain how and why you're a professional, the less professional you sound. Everyone knows that there's an endless list of wannabe engineers who will do this kind of thing for free. If you're an actual confident, professional engineer, then there's a reason they came to you. You don't have to explain it to them. Tell them your rate. If they want you to do it for free, pass on the job. Simple.

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Nick Sevilla
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Post by Nick Sevilla » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:37 am

Too much ranting.

This is simple:

Do you want me to work with / for you?

The rate is $x.

Cheers
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

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RodC
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Post by RodC » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:50 am

Ask them to mow your lawn for free. (Or sub anything else in there)

I have done projects for 0 dollars, but a proverbial lawn was mowed by said client.
'Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones'

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joelpatterson
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Post by joelpatterson » Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:20 pm

A proverbial lawn? It's got little signs all over it that say things like "a rolling stone gathers no moss"?
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Beat Poet
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Post by Beat Poet » Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:48 pm

chris harris wrote:The more you try to explain how and why you're a professional, the less professional you sound. Everyone knows that there's an endless list of wannabe engineers who will do this kind of thing for free. If you're an actual confident, professional engineer, then there's a reason they came to you. You don't have to explain it to them. Tell them your rate. If they want you to do it for free, pass on the job. Simple.
Top post, that's what it's all about.
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Brett Siler
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Post by Brett Siler » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:34 pm

Stuff I have done for for free was always regretful because they will get as much as they can out of you. Don't do it anymore unless it's my own personal stuff.

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Re: if someone asks you to work for free...

Post by kslight » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:59 pm

frans_13 wrote:
2-use it. When it's finished, use it. Some people think "oh, it didn't cost a cent, we don't need to use it." That translates to "The idiot gave it to me for free, it's worthless."
Don't ask me about the idiot part, but either way WE paid for it and you decide to bin it. There actually IS a black list, you know?

8-So when you have our work-- would you please not fooookitupp? Would you, or your aunt's nephew (see #4) please not mess with it, change it, wreck it and then, with the work mangled and marred and ruined present it as if WE did that? Or if we ask that you'll leave our names off it, be insulted?
These two ring the biggest bells with me, this also is irritating with paid work that you are proud of and want some recognition for in hopes of picking up other work and/or putting it on your reel.

Int'l Feel
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Post by Int'l Feel » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:52 am

My favorite is "Oh, you had a fee? I was hoping you were doing this for the music and the experience..."

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Post by rogersbarton » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:04 am

Int'l Feel wrote:My favorite is "Oh, you had a fee? I was hoping you were doing this for the music and the experience..."
At the end of the day, bills have to be paid.

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RodC
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Post by RodC » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:48 am

joelpatterson wrote:A proverbial lawn? It's got little signs all over it that say things like "a rolling stone gathers no moss"?
Nope, the sign says "Hippies use backdoor, no exceptions!" :)
'Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones'

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joelpatterson
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Post by joelpatterson » Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:44 am

RodC wrote:
joelpatterson wrote:A proverbial lawn? It's got little signs all over it that say things like "a rolling stone gathers no moss"?
Nope, the sign says "Hippies use backdoor, no exceptions!" :)
Less proverbial and more elitist, sounds like to me!!!
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Beat Poet
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Post by Beat Poet » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:27 am

Int'l Feel wrote:My favorite is "Oh, you had a fee? I was hoping you were doing this for the music and the experience..."
"I do not agree with the price, I'm gonna find someone cheaper". Makes you wonder why they don't go to the cheapest person around in the first place.
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