Common offending frequencies.

[trodden]

Inspired by the thread where the poster was asking if they should get a four band or three band eq... I started thinking about where i'm usually using EQ.

I mix out of PT through a console. I usually use the sonnex oxford eq plug for basic cutting/carving of problem frequencies and then use the board's 4 band eq usually for a boost here or there to make it sound more exciting.

Besides the standard low/high pass, I find that I'm often cutting 100-120 out of a lot of stuff, especially kick drum or room mics. I often find myself also cutting 2.2-2.8 out as well, mostly on OH's, Room, guitars, vox...

I find that if things were recorded in another studio I commonly track out of, the 100-130 area isn't "as bad", but I'm still cutting it.. while the 2.2-2.8 area is always something that is hurting my ears.

I'm wondering if my focus on these areas, almost obsession to INSTANTLY start carving that stuff away is bad practice... Worried that "common practice" may become bad habit.

Of course "use your ears" but my ears are constantly telling me to get rid of these areas often, and wondering if i need change my room treatment regarding this, or is this a common thing amoungst the rest of you.

[Nick Sevilla]

I would say yes, this tendency to do corrective EQ automatically is a bad thing.

You may need to look at your Room, and where you sit in the room, and find out if there are nodes or valleys of certain frequencies where your head or listening position is.

What do I do?

I tend to spend a lot of time simply listening to a new song before mixing it Even if I recorded all the parts.

Then, according to the final arrangement, I then can adjust the sound of each part accordingly. And, I also like to vary the same instrument from song to song in an album, to keep things from getting too predictable, too similar.

Cheers

[E.Bennett]

I suspect monitoring chain, room issues, or console. Maybe try doing a quick mix in the box while monitoring on headphones. Take the mix out of your mix space and evaluate. I think if you systematically remove elements of your mix process, you should find out if it's a personal preference thing or an actual issue with your setup. The 100hz range is a common area where room modes cause problems and the 2khz range is where crossovers in monitors can cause problems. I hated 450hz until I moved into a new mix room with a new console.

[joelpatterson]

I gots a left field observation, and that's a habit of cutting something, somewhere is often-times a strategy that works wonders, opens up what's left to bloom in an unconstricted way.

I wouldn't think the specific regions you tend to hone in on indicated a room problem or anything like that, maybe it's more a production style and aesthetic approach and gut-instinct thing? It just sounds better when you do that... maybe it's what's required when you're using the gear that you do?

Whatever the source material is, of the stuff I find myself doing, which is pop bands and solo guitar players and choruses and orchestras, I usually tend to build up a happy little 'island above sea level' around 200, dip out a scoop of sand at 300, maybe a thin slice at 500, and a couple of spiky, needle-thin cuts at 4k and 6k. Whether this is an " appropriate counteraction to the HD24 tracking/conversion profile" or what, it is, like you say, a starting point... to each their own, I say, the finest work happens when you're just jiggling things and hit on the magic combination that just sounds "right."

[trodden]

Joel,
Yeah that's what I'm thinking.. It's more of a "sounds right to me"/style thing. Was wondering if anyone else had similar acts/preferences.

With the bands I record, the drummer is beating the drums and cymbals to hell and back, throw a handful of high gain guitar tracks... Shit starts building up in certain area (2.2-2.8 ). And then getting that kick drum to cut through, getting rid of some of the "oompiness" (100-130) of it clears things up, especially before going through a lot of compression as well.

[accordion squeezist]

I'm with you on the 2.8K annoyance.
Yes, it hurts my ears.
Yes, I spend too much time trying to correct it in my mixes.
No, it's not the room. I've swept through it many times.
And it's not just my mixes. Sometimes I hear it on some CDs.
I hear it generally on other people's home project mixes and on headphones.
At this point, I thinking that it's just my ears, because nobody else here hears it, but I'm also beginning to think that it's the some of the mics I generally use...oktavamods.

[cale w]

I've found that in the last couple years, things like laptop speakers, clock radios, cell phones, tv speakers and walkie talkies tend to make my ears sting like crazy. It's all energy centered in the 2-4khz range mostly, which is where the resonate freq of the ear canal is. I'm chopping that shit out of mixes all the time, and I wonder if it has anything to do with ear damage?

Otherwise, in most mixes, I have a few specifics I keep coming back too. There's usually something to lose around 300-600hz in everything, except maybe the bass guitar. Pulling that out of background vocals really helps them move away from the front, unlike shelving the high end, which I always used to do but which never worked right. I highpass the bass guitar at 50-70hz a lot to make the kick sound deeper, and then give the bass a narrow boost at 70-100hz to give it its own lowend territory. Putting the deep stuff in it's own place takes up a lot of my mixing time.

Also, cutting the 1khz area in a lot of things seems to make a tremendous difference to me. And I'll agree with Joel about 200hz. I like the low knob on the UA Pultec plug for boosting that on the 2mix. It thickens things up without too much mud.

[Gregg Juke]

4K is also a problem area live. The feedback issues always seem to start and end there.

Maybe we should eliminate 4K, and rip off all the knobs?

GJ

[vvv]

The 4K area is where the intelligibility part of the voice resides, so a little cutting in the guitars and keys, etc., there can help the vocal.

Me, I do my absolute best to not use EQ, other than pass-filters, equipment choice and positioning (mic's and pans). It's either my aesthetic, or my ignorance.

[vxboogie]

4K is also a problem area live. The feedback issues always seem to start and end there.

Maybe we should eliminate 4K, and rip off all the knobs?

GJ

Agreed - especially in live situations. 2.5-4k is usually an area that isn't very smooth on lower end PAs and/or poorly setup systems. Alot of times due to the cheap passive crossovers in the lower end 2-way cabs.

I seem to have much less issues when tracking and mixing in that freq. area. In the recording arena, I'm using much different mics and don't have all that cymbal wash in the vocals either!

[trodden]

I'm with you on the 2.8K annoyance.
Yes, it hurts my ears.
Yes, I spend too much time trying to correct it in my mixes.
No, it's not the room. I've swept through it many times.
And it's not just my mixes. Sometimes I hear it on some CDs.
I hear it generally on other people's home project mixes and on headphones.
At this point, I thinking that it's just my ears, because nobody else here hears it, but I'm also beginning to think that it's the some of the mics I generally use...oktavamods.

I was thinking the same, regarding mics, but started to do more tracking at a place besides my own, using different mics and obviously a different room and still finding i'm cutting that area as well.


And what Joel mentioned, cutting things to allow the sound to "bloom" more. Totally. I'll spend a good amount of time with mic choice and placement as well as knob settings on a guitar amp. Then spend more time balancing between the two mics I usually use on guitar amps and get the best sound possible. It sounds great, but then i go in an do a couple cuts and then its even better.

I never understood the "anti-eq" crowd. its not a crutch, or excuse, but a tool.

[jgimbel]

I never understood the "anti-eq" crowd. its not a crutch, or excuse, but a tool.

I was just thinking about that a few hours ago. I've considered myself to be part of that crowd, my thinking is "if I do things perfectly before it hits that stage, I won't need any EQ". I just finished a mastering job this morning - a project that was recorded here entirely live, then I mixed and mastered. It sounded great while recording - I was monitoring as they played and it just sounded wonderful. Then I mixed it a bit - took out some spots that amp hiss stuck out, cut out some background vocals when said singer forgot the words, and it sounded even better. I was surprised how good it sounds considering my space is small and everyone was playing within very close proximity, plenty of bleed all around. But then I went to mastering, and wow. I took down a bit of 2.3-2.8ish, boosted a bit above that to bring out some of the acoustic instruments' texture, and did a little cut and little boost down lower. I think this is one of the bigger differences I've heard a mastering job make, here anyway. I can't help but feel, with this project or others, live or not, if I did everything perfectly when mixing, or even when tracking, would I not need any EQ later on? I don't know if this is the goal. I'm getting results I'm very happy with so it's not holding me back by wondering this, but I do sometimes wonder if I'm fixing things in the end that I just did terribly earlier.

[vvv]

I understand EQ to be a tool, also, altho' I kinda think of it as remedial.

I have this weird thing of not using auto-tune, or even trying to not cut-n-paste notes unless I have to.

Kinda it's like, where the OP thinks he might rush to do his standard EQ moves, I rush to not do any EQ moves (other than pass-filter).

[dubold]

trods, have you got a spectral analyser? maybe take a look at the tracks and mixes and see if there's really a buildup of 2-3k in the track, or if it's a condition of your room? could be a combo of the two as well.

another thing to consider: sometimes hearing damage manifests itself as sensitivity to a certain frequency - it's called "recruitment" http://www.hyperacusis.net/hyperacusis/ ... efault.asp

and then there's always the possibility that you're reacting accurately to your situation: that something in the chain is causing a buildup in these frequencies and you're doing the right thing to cut it. One way to figure this out is to get a second opinion that doesn't involve your ears. Either someone else listening, frequency analyzer, or both.


EQ was invented for a reason - this whole attitude of "oh I don't use X tool to record" is an aesthetic choice, just like Dogme 95 is to film. That's fine if you want to go that route, and maybe it helps some people focus.

I would say don't fret too much about it: be aware that your habit is to EQ in certain areas, so pay attention and see if it sounds better or not, rather than "fix it and move on" without a little scrutiny.

[chris harris]

4K is also a problem area live. The feedback issues always seem to start and end there.

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