Ethics question...

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

kakumei47
steve albini likes it
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 6:25 pm
Location: brooklyn
Contact:

Ethics question...

Post by kakumei47 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:12 am

Hey y'all,

(well this isn't really ethics I guess but just what an appropriate way to move forward is question)

Wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this. I have a band I've done several records with. In the last LP, one of the members left or was asked to leave the band mid-record. They were on ok terms, but have since had a falling out. The member that left wrote to me asking for me to tell him which songs they kept him on and how many people played so he can get the cut he feels like he should.

Of course, I can look at the files and figure this out pretty easily. I'm friends with the people in the band and the person who left.

So what would you do in this situation? I don't want to create bad blood by relaying this and not telling the other people (not sure if it would but still). Should I get in touch with the other people and let them know what's up? Stay out of it? What would you say/do?
Last edited by kakumei47 on Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Nick Sevilla
on a wing and a prayer
Posts: 5555
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:34 pm
Location: Lake Arrowhead California USA
Contact:

Post by Nick Sevilla » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:23 am

IME,

I try hard to stay far away from any kind of middleman, intermediary, or mediation position.

Our jobs are hard enough without entering band politics.

All I would do, is relay to that ex member, that you cannot get in the middle of this situation, and to please understand and respect your position.

I cannot tell you anything else other than to do the above, and stick to that.

Cheers
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

kakumei47
steve albini likes it
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 6:25 pm
Location: brooklyn
Contact:

Post by kakumei47 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:32 am

Good advice. That was my gut feeling on this one and what I'm leaning towards.

djimbe
tinnitus
Posts: 1179
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 4:55 am
Location: chicago
Contact:

Post by djimbe » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:31 am

Maybe suggest to either the band, the guy, or both that they might want to work up a full listing of personnel/instrument on each song for their packaging. That way, everyone is clear. I've done a bunch of things with many shifting performers and as a peformer I want that stuff noted anyway. Make them (not you) figure it out during mix, if it's that important. Beyond that, guy gets told "you really need to discuss that with the band not me".
I thought this club was for musicians. Who let the drummer in here??

chris harris
speech impediment
Posts: 4270
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:31 pm
Location: Norman, OK
Contact:

Post by chris harris » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:30 am

Dear Ex-Band Member Who Is Also My Friend,

I hope you understand that this is a professional decision and does not reflect on our friendship. This matter is between you and the band.

Sorry I can't be more help.

Your friend,
Engineer

User avatar
Snarl 12/8
cryogenically thawing
Posts: 3510
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:01 pm
Location: Right Cheer
Contact:

Post by Snarl 12/8 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:34 am

One thing I did (as instructed by my boss at the time, a lawyer) is make all the files available to everyone at the same time. Then, you're not interpreting anything for anyone, but you're not hiding the truth either. You could send screen shots of the track layouts, or just post the protools (or whatever) sessions and let whoever wants to download them and go through them for whatever purposes they want. My situation wasn't audio related, but it seems like it might work for you. I'm not talking about posting these publicly, just under password or whatever just for the parties involved.
Carl Keil

Almost forgot: Please steal my drum tracks. and more.

User avatar
dubold
steve albini likes it
Posts: 367
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 3:59 pm

Post by dubold » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:12 pm

yeah, that's not a great position to be in... telling him you don't want to be in the middle of it is technically neutral, but might feel like you're defaulting to the other people's "side".

part of the problem when getting into business with friends is figuring out who's the "boss" in the situation. I tend to go with "whoever's paying has the last word" unless the payer says otherwise. If the band members are all paying you, then they're all entitled to information about the sessions, mixes, whatever.

Having said that, this band member wants the info as ammo for dealing with the rest of the band. whether or not the band is telling this person accurate info about the sessions, band member SUSPECTS they aren't, or might not, which means there may be some bad blood around this whole situation...

I would just be honest with the individual and say, look, my dealings with y'all was as a group, and if the whole group agrees to this, then I'll gladly give you the info, otherwise you're just putting me in the middle of your band fight.

User avatar
joelpatterson
carpal tunnel
Posts: 1732
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:20 pm
Location: Albany, New York

Post by joelpatterson » Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:24 am

Yeah, I agree with the consensus, here: find some graceful way to demur.

When this kind of thing happens in my world, I describe it as a case of: YHCUWSKIYWMTGAW

("You have come up with some kooky idea you want me to go along with": in this case, conduct a secret inventory of the tracking info and prepare a private report.)

As engineers, we are naturally (biologically?) sympathetic to our customers, whose requests will sometimes lurch off in funny directions, but everyone should realize that we're operating in an overall framework which does have bounds.

Out of those bounds, you gotta smile sweetly and find some generous way to say, "Take your bitchy little vendetta to the principals, babe, and leave me the fuck out of it."
Mountaintop Studios
~The Peak of Perfection~
Petersburgh NY 12138

mountaintop@taconic.net

User avatar
Gregg Juke
cryogenically thawing
Posts: 3544
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:35 pm
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Contact:

Post by Gregg Juke » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:07 am

Yeah, this is a tough one. A copyright/intellectual property minefield, and if the band members themselves didn't take care of business, then it's not up to you.

You can either demur, or write an "open letter/e-mail to all involved," urging peaceful cooperation and cooexistence, and absolving yourself of any responsibility. But, you may want to hold-off on that until the record's done and the bill is current! :wink:

GJ

User avatar
dubold
steve albini likes it
Posts: 367
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 3:59 pm

Post by dubold » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:58 am

joelpatterson wrote: When this kind of thing happens in my world, I describe it as a case of: YHCUWSKIYWMTGAW
Ah yes, the ol' yuhcoowskeeyawmitgaw.

User avatar
joelpatterson
carpal tunnel
Posts: 1732
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:20 pm
Location: Albany, New York

Post by joelpatterson » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:02 am

It'll getcha every time!
Mountaintop Studios
~The Peak of Perfection~
Petersburgh NY 12138

mountaintop@taconic.net

User avatar
frans_13
takin' a dinner break
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:46 am
Location: Bavaria, Germany
Contact:

Post by frans_13 » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:24 am

Snarl 12/8 wrote:make all the files available to everyone at the same time.
??? Sounds fine, from a legal view.

The question is, what contribution will do the band and the ex-member justice? Is the ex-member just in to have some leverage to get, what the band doesn't want to give him? If the band doesn't want to give him what's due, then either way you get caught up in the middle, you lose. Find out what the band is planning first.

MoreSpaceEcho
zen recordist
Posts: 6671
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 11:15 am

Re: Ethics question...

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:06 am

kakumei47 wrote: so he can get the cut he feels like he should.
is the band in question actually selling loads of records? i.e. is there even a cut to be had at all? did he write any of the songs?

User avatar
vvv
zen recordist
Posts: 10139
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 8:08 am
Location: Chi
Contact:

Post by vvv » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:54 am

frans_13 wrote:
Snarl 12/8 wrote:make all the files available to everyone at the same time.
??? Sounds fine, from a legal view.
Respectfully, no.

The old cliche that "possession is 99/10's of the law" applies here.

You can't legally give a property right to away if it's not your property; possession is a right, and who has it does until they, or a court, says otherwise. (Don't get involved in any argument saying you have possession - yours is a license, you have no right of ownership as I understand these facts.)

Decline to change the status quo, advise the "out guy" to get a lawyer, mebbe explaining to him that you risk being sued (and you do) if you try to help him.
bandcamp;
blog.
I mix with olive juice.

User avatar
dubold
steve albini likes it
Posts: 367
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 3:59 pm

Re: Ethics question...

Post by dubold » Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:32 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:
kakumei47 wrote: so he can get the cut he feels like he should.
is the band in question actually selling loads of records? i.e. is there even a cut to be had at all? did he write any of the songs?
if there was a ton of money involved, the lawyers would be contacting each other; this is just the band having a hatchet fight because they can.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 73 guests