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Dealing with phasing from bleed in the analog domain. . . .

 
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honkyjonk
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:56 pm    Post subject: Dealing with phasing from bleed in the analog domain. . . . Reply with quote

Any tips?

If any of my digital shit was working, I might be temped to print this entire song to a HD just to try to slip one track in time to deal with a phasing issue that's kicking my ass right now:

Way too much guitar on the drum track. I'm dealing with analog 8 track here. This song began as drums and guitar. Drums to 1 track, guitar to another. The rest of the tracks are various overdubs. It's only the phase relationship between drums and guitar that are killing me right now.

The best thing I've discovered so far is to put a delay on an aux track and blend that in with the drums.

Just looking for any pointers or tricks from you folks without that fancy time aligning software and shit.

?????
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djimbe
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with phasing from bleed in the analog domain. . . . Reply with quote

Got LittleLabs? Can you borrow one? Do I need to sell you mine?

The IBP does neat stuff. Not always perfect, but enough to save some good tracks. And it's real hardware...
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honkyjonk
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Dealing with phasing from bleed in the analog domain. . . . Reply with quote

Yeah, that thing seems rad. Wish I knew somebody with one. Came across the Radial version too. Man, the things I need right NOW . . . .
I'm gonna mess around with delay again.
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themagicmanmdt
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Dealing with phasing from bleed in the analog domain. . . . Reply with quote

can you elaborate?

so, you've got a drum track and a guitar track. there's wayy too much guitar on the drum track.

so, the bleed is delayed on the drum track, and when you inch in the original guitar track, you get frequencies missing?

that's more of a comb filter you're mentioning due to time delay. if it's a stereo mix, pan them away, that'll help. if they're close in pan or if it's mono (or they're on top of each other), the frequency that's dipping out should be a fixed frequency with a narrow Q. if you've got a parametric EQ around, find out what's going down and adjust it on the guitar track (adjusting it on the drum track will change the drum tone).

otherwise, sending the guitar through the delay and blending that with drums is the way to go. but, that might not be a good choice fidelity-wise (depending on the delay).

past that.... embrace the recording!
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E.Bennett
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Dealing with phasing from bleed in the analog domain. . . . Reply with quote

Is it possible to just overdub the guitar and scrap the original?
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farview
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with phasing from bleed in the analog domain. . . . Reply with quote

Insert a delay on the guitar track and just delay it 1ms and see if that sounds better. If not, 2ms and so on.
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vvv
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with phasing from bleed in the analog domain. . . . Reply with quote

Sometimes gates ...
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Dominick Costanzo
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Dealing with phasing from bleed in the analog domain. . . . Reply with quote

Re record the drums
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Brett Siler
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Dealing with phasing from bleed in the analog domain. . . . Reply with quote

How bad is it? Can you post an example?

My first approach would be throw all the faders down and pan everything to the center. Pull up the drum track to unity gain. Slowly pull up the guitar track to a volume you like. Push the phase button, does it sound thicker? If so cool maybe I'm done. Pan to my liking and be on my way.
If not, pan back to the center insert a digital delay that is 100% wet on the guitar or drum track. Start from 1ms and add more delay. As you add more does it sound bigger or thicker? Maybe around 15ms, 20ms, 30ms, or more? Push the phase button again. I would play with those until I like the sound and then move on to the rest of the mix.

If that isn't working, pull out some crazy shit, or just re-track the whole thing if it's really that bad.
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Nick Sevilla
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with phasing from bleed in the analog domain. . . . Reply with quote

Here is the solution:

MUTE THE GUITAR TRACK.

Embrace the one bleeding through the drums.

Overdub a new guitar if needed and pan it differently than the bleed
guitar.

DONE.
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Brian
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with phasing from bleed in the analog domain. . . . Reply with quote

That ain't gonna work.

Determine which signal is earliest in time.

Take both tracks, the drums and the guitar,
put them through two separate delay units,
dial them to 100% effect output,
start moving the guitar track 1 ms at a time till the phasing goes away,

if it never does after 20 ms
Start moving the drum track 1 ms at a time till it goes away.
Even if you don't have your digital thang working you can still slide tracks in time. One thing is for sure, that ax is earlier on one track than he other and I'm betting moving the guitar track about 3-4 ms will nail em together.
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