what do i do - non payment, violent threats

psychwardmedia · Post by **psychwardmedia** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:08 pm

Ok so i had this issue...with the first decently paying project I've ever done, but damnit I know I did this right. This band comes in to record, a two piece. They want to over dub tracks and sound bigger of course. I say ok. I tell them it's ok because on drums I may have to over dub some stuff anyhow because I only have 8 channels of input available. I spend hundreds of dollars getting ready for these guys, normally I work with hip hop guys, so I needed more mics for the drums (I'd done it before, but I had to borrow mics then) longer cables, etc. I catered to them. I explained what needed to be done, and how it needed to be done, and did it up front. I worked 10 hour days for 200 bucks a day. I even took next to no breaks (which I warned them about, and explained the purpose of breaks for my ears but they didn't want to listen). I worked myself ragged, I really wanted this project, it's my first big project. If I remember right we tracked 14 songs in the first day. I tried to give the project a bit of order but these guys ran over the top of me and wouldn't listen...in the end i worked hard and was open and honest. I told them that I'm new and charged them less for it, I made a few small mistakes but I didn't screw them either. Now we get to the main point of it all. Yesterday a friend showed up on my doorstep at like 2 am - the cops brought her and I had to take her to the hospital - life or death stuff. I had to cancel. I offered to work on sunday (the day I never ever work) to accomodate the musicians request, explaining that it's an exception but I understood. It was like watching a train wreck. It went from good to worse to terrible. Then finally this guy comes to my studio and house (the studio is in a separate barn size building out back) to threaten my life. This dude was a big navy guy and i was scared. I ended up calling 911 to have the police there just in case. What do I do about this? The guy has threatened my life, threatened to blackball my businesses rep, and many other things. Should I file a civil suit? Should I hold the master until payment? Is there some artists union or something that I can file a grievance with? Tape op, help a young, scared engineer.

Bro Shark · Post by **Bro Shark** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:36 pm

Get the cops involved in keeping them away from you, and meanwhile consider the business transaction done, just send them whatever tracks you have completed. Send them via UPS or something. Cut your losses and use the law to make sure they stay far away.

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:42 pm

I'm not sure that I understand the problem (or more specifically, why and where are the threats are coming from?), but do they/does he still owe you money? If that's the case, I'd use the police _and_ I'd file civil suit to recover your wages as well.

GJ

psychwardmedia · Post by **psychwardmedia** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:14 am

yes he still owes me about 400 bucks, 2/3 of the work. The reason I'm so wordy about the whole thing is because I'm still very insecure in my own ability in this thing, and I don't doubt that they detect that. Anyhow, thanks for the help.

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:32 am

Insecure or not, you put in the time and spent money to prepare and do the job right. The short answer is that if you're willing, you have a civil legal process to get your money, and a criminal legal process to protect you from thugs and blustering bullies.

For the future, the "ounce of prevention" comes in two basic forms-- pre-production, and a clearly written contract/work agreement. Sometimes having some stock in Smith & Wessun doesn't hurt either.

GJ

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:42 am

Withhold the master until payment, consider a protective order against the thug, do spread the word in the community about their conduct.

If he actually threatened your life in so many words, insist on the police filing assault charges.

The problem with civil court is, $400 is relatively little money, a small claim at best, so no lawyer is likely to be interested.

I have no reco re self-defense except to say, if you are doing contested business, do it inna public place. IWO, if you meet with them again, pick a gas station or diner.

Or the cop-shop parking lot.

psychwardmedia · Post by **psychwardmedia** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:41 am

thanks a lot guys, if nothing else I really needed that bit of support. I am going to get a Victims Protective Order, and likely go to his commanding officer. I'll be holding the master until payment, and I started writing a contract, written expectations, and studio rules in contract form last night. I had hoped people weren't so childish as to NEED such a thing, but apparently there aren't enough adults in this world. You know, you guys aren't half bad.

Best regards,
Colby

Gentleman Jim · Post by **Gentleman Jim** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:06 pm

First, a bit of disclosure: I don't do the type of work you do. I do some live mobile recording and I deal with small commercial work. I've certainly had slow payers in the business to business world, but never anyone threatening me.

Now an observation: I'm a little surprised nobody has commented yet that this is the reason they "always" get paid up front, at least a 50% deposit, yadda yadda yadda. (I'm happy for you if I'm wrong, but I just don't believe this is how anybody on a smaller independent level does business every single time.)

Finally, some hopefully-helpful advice from someone who has been a studio customer in the past: There is absolutely nothing wrong with setting terms that you get paid at the end of each day. I've always paid as we went at studios; for the engineer/owner it tells them you respect their time and want them to think of you positively, for the band it means the bill won't creep up on you without anyone noticing. Nothing worse than having the one person in the band who suddenly can't do basic arithmetic and springs it on you that they can't pay their share.

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:38 pm

+1 to what Jim said about "pay by the session." +2 to what vvv said about holding the master (pretty standard actually).

Now, if I can "+3" myself for something that I haven't said yet, it would pertain to the Navy boy. I didn't quite catch your drift the first time that he is _currently, active_ military. You need to get paid before he's reassigned or deployed, which could happen anytime. If he doesn't come through with your cash right quick, you should _definitely_ contact someone on-post about the situation, maybe have a lawyer friend draft a letter. As a former military man, I can tell you that they are _very_ serious about personnel paying their debts and staying out of default situations on bills; they even give mandatory classes on that at basic training, and defaulting on balances owed may even put Navy boy afoul of the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). So, definitely follow through with that..

GJ

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:14 pm

wait, i don't understand....this guy threatened your life because you cancelled/rescheduled a session????????

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:18 pm

>>>>wait, i don't understand....this guy threatened your life because you cancelled/rescheduled a session????????<<<<

Yes, the details were rather unclear to me at a certain point in the story as well. But I guess the end result is that he didn't pay what he owes, right?

GJ

Nick Sevilla · Post by **Nick Sevilla** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:34 am

Hi,

Your story is still to vague to really give any comment.

Suffice to say :

1.- Get 50% deposit on any work to be done. From now on. Don't deviate from this rule.

2.- Like Hip-Hop / Rap? Great. Buy it on iTunes. Don't work on this music unless it is an ESTABLISHED act. And even then, get something in writing and a deposit. The SACRED deposit.

3.- Threats? Good thing you called the police. That is what they're there for. And, no you cannot charge the thug with assault unless he touched you. You should be able to charge him with "Criminal Threats"... this I know from personal experience, and a Sheriff deputy friend of mine, who suggested I charge someone with this instead of assault. It worked.

4.- Again, without knowing more about this situation, it just seems like par for the course. Lots and lots and lots of entitled musicians thinking they can get away with free stuff from you. Reference the movie "Boogie Nights"...

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:50 am

Nick Sevilla wrote:

3.- Threats? Good thing you called the police. That is what they're there for. And, no you cannot charge the thug with assault unless he touched you. You should be able to charge him with "Criminal Threats"... this I know from personal experience, and a Sheriff deputy friend of mine, who suggested I charge someone with this instead of assault. It worked.

Respectfully, your information seems based on local practice and/or laws. The (basic) technical definition of assault is putting someone in apprehension of harm; assault is often confused with battery, for which the (basic) technical definition is an offensive touching.

To further the technical discussion, only law enforcement or the courts can actually charge; as a witness (for example, city or county or State's witness) you can request charges be brought.

But I do agree with everything else ya said!

psychwardmedia · Post by **psychwardmedia** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:29 pm

ok let me clarify. I'm not entirely sure why he threatened my life, but I can speculate. Shortly before or after he threatened my life the first time (it happened more than once) he told me that he thought I should throw the band a bone, I informed him that any bone I should or would throw him was already done in that I was charging half or less than half of any studio I have been able to find in the state/area. I remained professional. He seemed to also think that engineers shouldn't have any breaks, though I had informed him multiple times about how and why it is done. Lastly he seemed to think it took too long - which after a more careful analysis was because of his inability to follow my processes and procedures - in other words going back and forth between tracking, dubbing, mixing, etc. throughout the session, and of course trying to be the one take wonder and refusing to do anything but one take tracks most of the time. Basically he thought he was doing my business a huge favor. The individual here is a clear criminal, refusing to pay, as one said, assault, and likely in violation of multiple military codes, especially being that he wore his dress blues during a time he didn't need to be wearing them. I'm giving him a few days...after that his arse is grass. I started a class action lawsuit worth millions about a year ago - this is small potatoes. I'll eat him for breakfast. I appreciate the confidence. Had he not threatened me I'd not be so harsh - but the things said and done - and the way it's affected me and mine make this unforgiveable. Any legal or military advice is appreciated.

Beat Poet · Post by **Beat Poet** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:34 pm

Hope it goes alright for you man, that's a shit situation.

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what do i do - non payment, violent threats

what do i do - non payment, violent threats

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