what do i do - non payment, violent threats

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psychwardmedia
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Post by psychwardmedia » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:45 pm

it's going to go fine...thanks to you guys I got my confidence back and have a good course of action.
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Zacharia Matilda
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Post by Zacharia Matilda » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:58 pm

Sounds like a scary situation. Keep us posted.
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chris harris
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Post by chris harris » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:49 pm

Nick Sevilla wrote:2.- Like Hip-Hop / Rap? Great. Buy it on iTunes. Don't work on this music unless it is an ESTABLISHED act. And even then, get something in writing and a deposit. The SACRED deposit.
This was already mentioned, but then deleted for some reason... but, c'mon.... This is straight bigotry informed by stereotypes and your own prejudices. There are assholes in ALL genres. I recommend meeting with ANY client at a neutral site to get a feel for what they're all about, and what they want to accomplish, before inviting them into your studio or committing to work with them.

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Nick Sevilla
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Post by Nick Sevilla » Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:53 pm

chris harris wrote:
Nick Sevilla wrote:2.- Like Hip-Hop / Rap? Great. Buy it on iTunes. Don't work on this music unless it is an ESTABLISHED act. And even then, get something in writing and a deposit. The SACRED deposit.
This was already mentioned, but then deleted for some reason... but, c'mon.... This is straight bigotry informed by stereotypes and your own prejudices. There are assholes in ALL genres. I recommend meeting with ANY client at a neutral site to get a feel for what they're all about, and what they want to accomplish, before inviting them into your studio or committing to work with them.
My experience :

Country artists : 100% ok - over 8 albums
Rock : 100% ok - 6 albums
Prog Rock : 50% ok - 3 albums
Classical : 100% ok - 6 albums
Jazz : 100% ok - 15 albums
New Age : 100% ok - 2 albums
Electronic : 100% ok - 4 albums
Rap / Hip Hop : 0% ok - 4 albums

So far, that's my record.
Sorry if it looks bigoted and racist.
It's only based on what has happened to me in my personal experience.

Not on some pre-concieved notion, or some racist crap.

IF you are Assuming I am only making shit up, I can see how you would think this, without more information.

So,
Should I only do Rap / Hip Hop, so their average gets better?

Of course you have to understand, that when I ask for a 50% deposit...

Most non-serious artists never call back. This data is not part of my "prejudice".

Cheers
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

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Post by cgarges » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:17 pm

For whatever it's worth (and I don't want this to degenerate into some crazy race debate), in all the sessions I've done in the last seven years (at my current base of operations and freelance gigs at other studios), I had one bad hip hop experience, although I am owed no money. There is one bluegrass group that still owes me money, and twice I have had to send collection letters to rock bands who scheduled at the last minute and then didn't show up. Both of them eventually paid, including the late fees I charged them for paying late.

The deposit route really is a fairly foolproof way to go. I can't recommend it highly enough. The few times where I've gotten burned over the years, it's been because I bypassed the deposit scenario for whatever reason.

But, don't let this one guy shake your confidence. It's terrible that you got so psyched for this session and then got treated like that. There are certainly clients who can be a real pain and you can't always tell who that's gonna be (there are assholes looking for deals and there are assholes with plenty of money). But for the most part, if you treat everyone like the business dealings that they are, then you'll have fewer problems and you'll be able to sleep better at night. The sooner you get used to having conversations about money and procedures, the easier it will be. And the more honest and comfortable you are about that stuff, the more people will be willing to deal with you on that level.

As far as breaks are concerned, there's no reason not to take breaks, unless there's a deadline and you're on the last day of the session, at which point you have to be upfront and honest about the likely result. Legally, most states require employees to take breaks every few hours (I think in NC it's a 1/2 hour break for every six hours worked and one-hour break for every eight hours worked) and if it comes down to it, I would have no problem pulling that card on a paying client who was that insistent about work. That's part of the reason I like working a day rate.

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lyman
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Post by lyman » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:51 am

Nick Sevilla wrote: My experience :

Country artists : 100% ok - over 8 albums
Rock : 100% ok - 6 albums
Prog Rock : 50% ok - 3 albums
Classical : 100% ok - 6 albums
Jazz : 100% ok - 15 albums
New Age : 100% ok - 2 albums
Electronic : 100% ok - 4 albums
Rap / Hip Hop : 0% ok - 4 albums

So far, that's my record.
Sorry if it looks bigoted and racist.
It's only based on what has happened to me in my personal experience.

Not on some pre-concieved notion, or some racist crap.
But one could just as easily look at that "evidence" and conclude that you have a problem working with people in that genre. Perhaps you went into the sessions with preconceptions or a chip on your shoulder. Not saying you did or didn't. Just that people rationalize their beliefs by cherry picking the "personal experience" that supports their view-point and ignoring the stuff that doesn't. And that statistics on their own are not useful.

Again, just commenting on your argument and not on you personally, or on race for that matter.
Last edited by lyman on Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by chris harris » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:24 am

cgarges wrote:But for the most part, if you treat everyone like the business dealings that they are, then you'll have fewer problems and you'll be able to sleep better at night. The sooner you get used to having conversations about money and procedures, the easier it will be. And the more honest and comfortable you are about that stuff, the more people will be willing to deal with you on that level.
^best advice^

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fossiltooth
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Post by fossiltooth » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:34 am

lyman wrote:
Nick Sevilla wrote: My experience :

Country artists : 100% ok - over 8 albums
Rock : 100% ok - 6 albums
Prog Rock : 50% ok - 3 albums
Classical : 100% ok - 6 albums
Jazz : 100% ok - 15 albums
New Age : 100% ok - 2 albums
Electronic : 100% ok - 4 albums
Rap / Hip Hop : 0% ok - 4 albums

So far, that's my record.
Sorry if it looks bigoted and racist.
It's only based on what has happened to me in my personal experience.

Not on some pre-concieved notion, or some racist crap.
But one could just as easily look at that "evidence" and conclude that you have a problem working with people in that genre. Perhaps you went into the sessions with preconceptions or a chip on your shoulder. Not saying you did or didn't. Just that people rationalize their beliefs by cherry picking the "personal experience" that supports their view-point and ignoring the stuff that doesn't.
That came to mind for me too. I've been stiffed by exactly one rock client and one hip-hop client in my life.

I used to work on a lot of hip hop when I got started -- mostly because that's where I could find accessible and well-paying clients at the time. I didn't even have to look for paying clients in that world.

Of course I worked on a lot of weird indie rock and jazz records back then too. But when I was getting started, it was mostly those dudes who were the broke ones.

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joelpatterson
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Post by joelpatterson » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:40 pm

I had a classical piano player hit me with, "Oh, what? Wait a minute, the video part doesn't just come free with the audio recording?" so if there's a truism to be found, it's that flakiness knows no limits and no genre.
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Gregg Juke
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Post by Gregg Juke » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:50 am

Well, doesn't it?!?!?!???

That seems highly irregular to me, Joel. Highly irregular. :roll:

GJ

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joelpatterson
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Post by joelpatterson » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:57 am

Of course there's a deeper question, which is, why do I want any money at all?

Don't I like music?
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psychwardmedia
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things I've done so far, and plan to do

Post by psychwardmedia » Thu May 03, 2012 12:24 am

ok so first, I'm confused as to why hip hop and dealings with it became such an issue, this was an irish punk type band (think flogging molly). Now...actions taken so far, I have emailed public relations at the base with info on the incident. Next (tomorrow) I'm calling his credit union, and also calling experian, trans union, and equifax to find out how long I have to wait before filing a report for non payment with them. Also I plan on working on having a lean placed and contacting ASCAP to see if there is anything I can do, assuming he is a member of course. It's in my past, and I've since found work with a wonderful guy doing live sound, it's not what I dream of but it's steady and he's a real nice guy. Speaking of, any thoughts on protecting my ears during live sound without inhibiting the way I hear what's going on? I've noticed that my earplugs block some frequencies more than others.
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psychwardmedia
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Post by psychwardmedia » Thu May 03, 2012 1:30 am

joelpatterson wrote:Of course there's a deeper question, which is, why do I want any money at all?

Don't I like music?
heh, i like the music, (and I should preface this by saying I know that comment was made in jest, but that little bit, when coming from the other side of the business is a burning pain in all our sides...so I'm going to rant) but this IS a business. A business which needs money in a world which runs on money above all else. I know lots of musicians would ask that question and truly mean it, but they either arent trying to make a living off of music, or don't care if they make a good living. Those who are lucky enough to make a good living off of it understand that business smarts must be an integral part of all of this, as with any other part of life, or you'll get nowhere.
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Scodiddly
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Re: things I've done so far, and plan to do

Post by Scodiddly » Sun May 06, 2012 9:43 am

psychwardmedia wrote:Speaking of, any thoughts on protecting my ears during live sound without inhibiting the way I hear what's going on? I've noticed that my earplugs block some frequencies more than others.
Spend the money (under $500) to get a pair of custom-molded earplugs. You can get filters that are fairly flat with various dB reduction. Carry them all the time.

Also get a SPL meter app for your phone, or go to Radio Shack and buy the hardware version. Find out how loud things are and protect your ears accordingly.

Learn how to talk the guitarist and the drummer into playing more quietly.

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fossiltooth
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Re: things I've done so far, and plan to do

Post by fossiltooth » Sun May 06, 2012 9:04 pm

psychwardmedia wrote:ok so first, I'm confused as to why hip hop and dealings with it became such an issue, this was an irish punk type band.
Yeah, I don't know how that happened either. I think that a commenter who will remain nameless Nick Sevilla didn't thoroughly read the post before he picked up on a few keywords and used them as an opportunity point to get all stereo-typey. :)

I guess that when a person assumes all hip hop artists are dangerous and scammy, it's easy to misread a post that includes the words "hip hop" and assume that those were the people doing the threatening and the scamming. Even when it turns out it was the white irish dudes who play guitars.

Anyway.
chris harris wrote:
cgarges wrote:But for the most part, if you treat everyone like the business dealings that they are, then you'll have fewer problems and you'll be able to sleep better at night. The sooner you get used to having conversations about money and procedures, the easier it will be. And the more honest and comfortable you are about that stuff, the more people will be willing to deal with you on that level.
^best advice^
Totally. Someone a lot smarter than me once said "people will pretty much treat you the way you expect to be treated."

I've found that to be surprisingly true. And I'm not talking about the way you say you expect to be treated. It can take a while before the two the become the same thing. Keep at it. You're doing fine.
Last edited by fossiltooth on Mon May 07, 2012 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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